Fans right to boo

[calscot 0]

Listen mate, I don't know you and I don't want to cause offence but you need to stop for a minute and consider what you're posting about this matter. Your as entitled to an opinion as the next man but you're getting close to making a fool of yourself with this absurd campaign to defend the plainly indefensible. It's one thing to play Devil's advocate but it's quite another to claim right of way while the 18 wheeler is running over you. Get a grip comes to mind.

 

Defend the indefensible? What, I should just let people completely twist quotes to suit their agenda?

 

I think your too deluded by your own campagne to even realise what I'm actually defending.

 

I'm defending against misinformation, against twisting of facts and quotes, against defamation for the sake of it. I'm against people touting purely negative and unreasonable predictions as fact.

 

There is definitely and 18 wheeler of lies, dishonesty and twisted propaganda coming at me but that does not mean I should meekly get out of the way.

 

I'd just like to say you really don't know me. You think I'm a Murray apoligist when nothing could be further from the truth as many peole should be able to testify. However, with all my criticisms of him, I have attempted to be fair, honest and to do it with integrity.

 

I think you've already made a fool of yourself today with your lack of ability to understand a pretty simple quote, so excuse me if I take my advice from someone else.

[Norris Cole 0]

Calscot,

 

I can�t stop you going round in circles. What I can do, with every confidence, is state that in no way, shape or form have I ever twisted or spun anything that has come out of Walter Smith�s mouth for any agenda. My only agenda is the advancement of Rangers Football Club. Part of that happens to be a change of manager, and certainly a change of chairman.

 

You accuse me of ââ?¬Å?deliberate inaccuraciesââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?twisting of factsââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?taking things out of contextââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?scare-mongeringââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?false negative predictionsââ?¬Â (?), ââ?¬Å?liesââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?propagandaââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?spin-doctoringââ?¬Â and ââ?¬Å?nit-pickingââ?¬Â. Take a 5-minute browse of the board and youââ?¬â?¢ll notice a number of posters agreeing with the sorts of things myself and MF are saying. Do these people stand accused of the above also?

 

Perhaps I understand your siege mentality. But what do you expect? Youââ?¬â?¢re defending the indefensible. Your defences of Smith are desperate, I can think of no other word. In fact itââ?¬â?¢s classic Murrayite ââ?¬â?? I sound like Timmy apparently. Yawn.

 

Whatever your agenda and whatever mine, Walter said what he said and his words are out there for any literate person to read.

 

I gave you a clear example of what Walter did wrong last night and you responded with some completely unrelated point about our young players.

 

History wonââ?¬â?¢t need to judge Walter Smith Part II a failure ââ?¬â?? his inadequacies are biting us on the arse here and now. No amount of misplaced Fuhrer-bunker loyalism or Murraymen in the media can escape that.

 

I agree with you on one thing. It is a results based game. Smith should have got the bullet after Kaunas. And he should certainly get the fuck away from Rangers now.

[calscot 0]

Calscot,

 

I can’t stop you going round in circles. What I can do, with every confidence, is state that in no way, shape or form have I ever twisted or spun anything that has come out of Walter Smith’s mouth for any agenda.

 

Maybe I am going in circles but is it surprising after the fact I've categorically proven you twisted Walter's quote (by omission) and yet you still deny it. It's in black and white above.

 

You accuse me of “deliberate inaccuracies”, “twisting of facts”, “taking things out of context”, “scare-mongering”, “false negative predictions” (?), “lies”, “propaganda”, “spin-doctoring” and “nit-picking”. Take a 5-minute browse of the board and you’ll notice a number of posters agreeing with the sorts of things myself and MF are saying. Do these people stand accused of the above also?

 

The Nazi party used those same tactics and most of large country agreed with them at the time. If Walter had won two more games to win the league and the UEFA cup (which with a lesser fixture list, could have been very plausible), you would have very few followers. Two games, and and unbelievable fixture pile up, that's it. All you have is people desperate for Rangers to be back on top again as we've been in a 10 year spell where we've played second fiddle - and that's not all Walter's fault.

 

Perhaps I understand your siege mentality. But what do you expect? You’re defending the indefensible. Your defences of Smith are desperate, I can think of no other word. In fact it’s classic Murrayite – I sound like Timmy apparently. Yawn.

 

My only defense of Walter is that when you look at his results in the cold light of day, without prejudice, they are not too bad. All the defences of Eck and PLG are multiplied 1000 fold for Smith. There is just not enough objective evidence against him, it doesn't make any sense. It seems a Rangers manager has to win the quadruple every year by a huge margin to be acceptable to you.

 

To me you sound like Timmy because Timmy twists everything to put Rangers in a bad light - it's one of the reasons Rangers fans hate Celtic fans. Rangers can do no right in their eyes, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't and so tell me, in what way are you different?

 

I think you would do far better to measure you criticism, to give it where it is due and keep it real. Most of the time you and others are just mud slinging.

 

Whatever your agenda and whatever mine, Walter said what he said and his words are out there for any literate person to read.

 

Yes and you deliberately took them out of context and even cut and pasted that way. Now I didn't actually take you for a fool but are you saying you don't have the intelligence to understand this, or even understand what Walter was saying?

 

Now YOU'RE defending the indefensible.

 

I gave you a clear example of what Walter did wrong last night and you responded with some completely unrelated point about our young players.

 

My point was that Walter has been told what he does wrong all the time by fans but then when he does what the fans say he should do, we can still lose and lose badly. The team he put out and the formation was not far from what most fans wanted. Some fans wanted 4-4-2, they got it, some wanted Fleck on, they got it, some wanted to see Edu play, they got it, some wanted Boyd to be first pick, they got it, some wanted Lafferty through the middle, they got it, some wanted Aaron on, they got it, etc, etc, etc.

 

History won’t need to judge Walter Smith Part II a failure – his inadequacies are biting us on the arse here and now.

 

His inadequacies show up from time to time, but the fact is he's still in the hunt for three trophies. If say he wins the League and League Cup, history will show he won 4 trophies in two seasons as well as a UEFA runners up spot. Nothing else.

 

No amount of misplaced Fuhrer-bunker loyalism or Murraymen in the media can escape that.

 

Tell me, how is pointing out someone deliberately taking a quote out of context to make it sound like the opposite of what is was, how is that bunker-loyalism or being a Murrayman?

 

The ironic thing is that there is plenty of evidence on this site if you care to trawl back, that I'm not pro-Murray at all.

 

That does not mean I go for this brand of mistruth and misrepresentation.

 

I agree with you on one thing. It is a results based game. Smith should have got the bullet after Kaunas. And he should certainly get the fuck away from Rangers now.

 

Talk about circular, but that's just rubbish. No Rangers manager has been sacked for going out of Europe at the first attempt. Rangers Euro record is by and large, pretty poor and the league has always been more important. If Walter did a Kaunas twice then I could understand where you are coming from but the fact he did well in the CL and got us to the UEFA cup final is easily enough to give him another chance.

 

I think you are showing up how harsh your criticism is. If we sacked every manager that was 3pts behind in the league, in one cup final and the quarters of another, then we'd be like Atletico Madrid and be having 2 or 3 managers a season.

 

No Rangers manager has ever been judged so harshly and that's what I just don't get and why I have my position.

 

I may be getting entrenched but it's very, very hard to side with that kind of outrageous mentality.

Edited March 5, 2009 by calscot

[Norris Cole 0]

Now I'm a Nazi.

 

Do I see the mask of composure slipping?

[johnnyk 158]

Now I'm a Nazi.

 

Do I see the mask of composure slipping?

 

zig hail

[maineflyer 0]

Calscot,

 

I can’t stop you going round in circles. What I can do, with every confidence, is state that in no way, shape or form have I ever twisted or spun anything that has come out of Walter Smith’s mouth for any agenda. My only agenda is the advancement of Rangers Football Club. Part of that happens to be a change of manager, and certainly a change of chairman.

 

You accuse me of “deliberate inaccuracies”, “twisting of facts”, “taking things out of context”, “scare-mongering”, “false negative predictions” (?), “lies”, “propaganda”, “spin-doctoring” and “nit-picking”. Take a 5-minute browse of the board and you’ll notice a number of posters agreeing with the sorts of things myself and MF are saying. Do these people stand accused of the above also?

 

Perhaps I understand your siege mentality. But what do you expect? You’re defending the indefensible. Your defences of Smith are desperate, I can think of no other word. In fact it’s classic Murrayite – I sound like Timmy apparently. Yawn.

 

Whatever your agenda and whatever mine, Walter said what he said and his words are out there for any literate person to read.

 

I gave you a clear example of what Walter did wrong last night and you responded with some completely unrelated point about our young players.

 

History won’t need to judge Walter Smith Part II a failure – his inadequacies are biting us on the arse here and now. No amount of misplaced Fuhrer-bunker loyalism or Murraymen in the media can escape that.

 

I agree with you on one thing. It is a results based game. Smith should have got the bullet after Kaunas. And he should certainly get the fuck away from Rangers now.

Wasting your time. This one's utterly removed from reality and sadly well beyond help. Some you just have to let go. Whatever it is, it's no longer one of us.

[maineflyer 0]

I find it hard to think where this idea might have sprung from, that supporters are somehow less than loyal if they are critical of the club. Whether interneds challenging the chairman or supporters booing another inept performance, what pompous silliness causes us to think that people freely expressing opinion is something to condemn. Is the expression of passionately held emotions now such a bitter concept to deal with that some can't deal with.

 

Why are we even debating whether people should boo the team? Surely if it's right for them then it's a choice they're entitled to make. Fukk those people who think they have to act as the moral voice of the whole support.

[calscot 0]

Now I'm a Nazi.

 

Do I see the mask of composure slipping?

 

Brilliant! More misinterpretation, you're pretty good at it. I didn't call you a Nazi, I said Nazi's were also great users of propaganda to manipulate people. Can you help yourself making these leaps of interpretation?

 

Funny that you used, "Fuhrer-bunker" earlier so is your mask of composure slipping?

[calscot 0]

I find it hard to think where this idea might have sprung from, that supporters are somehow less than loyal if they are critical of the club.

 

Do you think if you lied about, twisted the truth about and very harshly judged your friends, they would consider you loyal?

 

Is Rangers not your friend?

 

There is a difference between criticism or having an opinion, and conducting a malicious smear campaign. I'd say the latter is immensely disloyal.

 

Basically with friends like you, who needs enemies?

[calscot 0]

Wasting your time. This one's utterly removed from reality and sadly well beyond help. Some you just have to let go. Whatever it is, it's no longer one of us.

 

Yeah, let it go, neither of you have one point to make on the actual subject, instead attacking those who disagree.

 

No, I can't be "helped" by you, I'm just not that gullible or so easily manipulated.

 

Why don't you explain to everyone, why you both misquoted (by omission) and misinterpreted Walter Smith's words?

 

Come on, I dare you.

 

And god help if I ever become one of you, what are you, some kind of cult?