bmck 117 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Bugger im late for work after reading all that! i have never managed to be concise - i think its genetic, my dad is the same (as anyone who has read his posts on here knows). i need to give myself a few extra days before i submit an essay for uni to squeeze the thing into the word limit manchester really has sat really poorly with me as well. i seen so much on tv and all that, that i really didnt like, but when i thought about everyone i knew who had busted a gut to be there just to come under the indiscriminate fire of everyone and anyone who got themselves up on a little box to shout. when i saw all the youtube videos posted by celtic supporters clearly loving that it had happened without any genuine concern for anyones safety or anything like it, all the moral rantings just went straight over my head. i understand people who riot - they are clearly trouble makers, but in a way you can understand - but people delighting in rioting, willing bad things to happen so that they can wander about telling people how bad we are, and how good they are, i found incomprehensible. lower than low. barely human. why sdm joined in is anyones guess. he had to take some responsibility, but with some qualifcations. didnt it get his stomach going a little bit that all these people had travelled? i dont think there has ever been a wider societal/finanical etc gap between fans and players/staff, and unlike celtic, rangers are making no attempt to address that gap by constantly talking the support up. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 7,985 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 i think spiers and his ilk just realise how superfluous they are becoming. why would i pay to read his pish when i can read the less flowery writings of someone who actually loves rangers? the papers are nervous because they arent as necessary as they once were i think. he is clearly just bitter and its good to read because of that! That is a fantastic point and one that not only affects the media, but has seen a decline in the circulation of the match day programme and the Rangers News. Most fans would rather spend their hard-earned cash on publications like Follow Follow, No1 Fanzine and The Rangers Historian - all publications written by the fans, for the fans. These publications may not contain the prose as the newspapers, but the readers can identify and sympathise with the contributors, even if they do not agree with a specific article or viewpoint. It is almost the reverse with the official publications that are frighted to print anything remotely 'out of touch with the custodians views'. The internet has allowed Rangers fans a platform to raise their fears, concerns, opinions et al in a way that no other medium has and long may this continue. There are some fantastic websites that have some fantastic contributors who's only 'crime' is discussing the club that they love - more power to them I say. If anything, these forums can offer some brilliant suggestions (just look at our own Setting The Standards as a prime example) that the club should be embracing rather than dismissing. Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Me thinks that this article requires a darkened room and a steady supply of coffee. It will no doubt be a meticulous article as usual. I look forward to reading it tonight Barry. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
franker 3 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 That is a fantastic point and one that not only affects the media, but has seen a decline in the circulation of the match day programme and the Rangers News. Most fans would rather spend their hard-earned cash on publications like Follow Follow, No1 Fanzine and The Rangers Historian - all publications written by the fans, for the fans. These publications may not contain the prose as the newspapers, but the readers can identify and sympathise with the contributors, even if they do not agree with a specific article or viewpoint. Cammy F In a similar vein yesterdays article on fanzines on the BBC website may interest you. The following comment by Professor Chris Atton was particularily significant. "They show how fans of all kinds of popular culture can become experts with as much insight as professional journalists." Try telling that to Spiers http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7908705.stm 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,552 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Thanks for that link Franker... Much appreciated. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 im not sure what you mean, its probably just me though. sdm and ws have been calling people like those who took the banner, and those who have criticised them online, faceless wonders who would cower in their presence. they arent talking about people pretending to be rangers fans and spewing bile, they are accusing actual rangers fans of spewing bile. they may very well be, but everyone i talk to online - whether they are as rabidly (though charmingly) critical like maineflyer or emminently sensible and balanced like craig - seem like fundamentally decent people who are just talking about rangers in the way thats natural to them. i dont think they have the villanous motives that sdm and ws ascribe to them. maybe they are talking about something else - but i get the impression they are using the fact that there are nutters on the internet (who wouldve knew?) to deflect criticism. or have i missed your point? Now I know you shouldn't judge your own work but "rabidly critical"? Am I really so misunderstood? And I thought I was the sensible one. Where's that bloody mirror? Actually, the most vindication I ever received was when Minty issued his fatwa against the inteneds. It provided conclusive evidence that here was a man who didn't really give a fig about my Rangers and was prepared to lash out like a fractious child whenever it was suggested he might not be the golden boy after all. Do you remember as I do when David Murray announced he wanted to listen to the views of the fans? Liar Liar... Have you ever actually heard an honest word fall from the lips of that man and can anyone really say they are proud to have this Richard Nixon of a man associated with Rangers? That he should be questioning the motives of Rangers fans is perverse and vaguely sinister. I'd have though the standards set on this and other forums was well in advance of anything seen from David Murray. Smith's later statements of support for his boss were unimportant. We all knew he was just doing as he had been bidden. Charming, fundamentally decent. Hmm, could be right. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,552 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 I'm just glad he didn't say 'knob-end' or I'd fast be running out of moderators... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I'm just glad he didn't say 'knob-end' or I'd fast be running out of moderators... hehe, if i go down gersnet comes down with me :box: seriously though, i tend not to agree with you on much maineflyer - well, probably more than i'd like to think - but i do think your fundamental intuition that something is rotten in the state of denmark, and that rot starts from the top, is undeniably true. i dont think sdm is a super-villain, i'm grateful for the good times he's given us, but i just think he cant be arsed anymore, and his ego is keeping him from seeing that these are the toughest times our club's had in a long time, and that its a symptom of genuinly laudable loyalty that rangers supporters (better ones than myself) are persevering through it and continue to spend while never getting any good press at all. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I'm just glad he didn't say 'knob-end' or I'd fast be running out of moderators... Aw I don't know ........ it really just depends how it's put across. Said the right way I'm sure it could become a term of endearment. "Let me hold you close, my leetle knob-end". See? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 hehe, if i go down gersnet comes down with me :box: seriously though, i tend not to agree with you on much maineflyer - well, probably more than i'd like to think - but i do think your fundamental intuition that something is rotten in the state of denmark, and that rot starts from the top, is undeniably true. i dont think sdm is a super-villain, i'm grateful for the good times he's given us, but i just think he cant be arsed anymore, and his ego is keeping him from seeing that these are the toughest times our club's had in a long time, and that its a symptom of genuinly laudable loyalty that rangers supporters (better ones than myself) are persevering through it and continue to spend while never getting any good press at all. If you stick at it long enough then you eventually use up all the considered arguments and find that you've passed this way too many times already and things are still going downhill. So you end up more or less in jaundiced despair. We all know deep down that none of the points made on here will ever be listened to by anyone who can actually make a difference at Rangers but we keep on making them anyway. Because we care and we hope. You go to Ibrox and the decline breaks your heart - bullying stewards, complacent officials, hapless ticketing service, the state of the stadium, lack of atmosphere - you consult your blue book to see what can safely be said or sung, what's the latest directive? You miss the last 15 minutes of every game as people stream past you on the way to who knows where. You give up the season ticket. You stop buying merchandise because you're not going to let the bastards screw you without some payback. So you end up watching Rangers on setanta while scott booth talks shite and puts your team down at every opportunity. You read the concocted bile from Spiers and so many others in the media. You watch the Manchester bearfest turned into a stick to beat us with and you wonder if you should admit you were there. Everything stinks and nothing seems like it was in years gone by. And above it all, making all this possible, even orchestrating the emasculation of Rangers is David Murray. You hate him for his lack of leadership, his lies, his disinterest and for allowing us to be ridiculed and belittled with impunity. But what can any of us really do about David Murray? And what can we do with those who see the world differently, who still laud David Murray for saving the club and leading us to so many achievements? We can do nothing. Doing nothing is what being a Rangers supporter has become. It's not intuition that leads me to believe Rangers are rotten to the core. It's simple elimination of any alternative conclusion. Not our heritage, not our fans, but those running the club are utterly compromised in every sense. It's wonderful to see the team top of the league and if we win this title I'll need scraped off the ceiling - but the fundamentals will still be rotten and it will still be an intriguing question whether or not the laudable loyalty is helping Rangers - or not. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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