Valencia to review Aaron loan in summer.

[Zappa 0]

No I am NOT saying Boyd is the only one that will score - but by the same token you are trying to say that all the rest will score against all the better teams regardless of service, correct ?

 

The thing is.... not one of our strikers will score goals regularly if the service from the midfield is non-existent. Did you watch the game on Saturday ? Tell me just how Boyd should be singled out for criticism when the ONLY type of service he got was a high ball up the park. JCD was far worse than Boyd yet he escapes the whole "can only score against weaker teams" argument. It is a poor argument to make IMO.

 

Boyd, when scoring goals for fun "wasn't doing anything else so if he doesnt score you are a man down".

 

Then when he improves his "team" performance it is "he needs to do it consistently over a number of games".

 

Then when he does it for half a dozen games and in ONE game doesn't it is "see, told you that he could only score against the smaller teams". Yet this latest argument is at a time when the service to the strikeforce has been missing. No matter which striker you talk about they will have games when they don't score. At Rangers Boyd scores in more games than he doesn't which is a statistic that NOT ONE of our other strikers can boast.

 

Even the world's best strikers will struggle to score if their service is shit. Playing long balls up to Boyd is NOT playing to his strengths yet we persist in this type of system because the midfield are not creating anything. That isn't Boyd's fault.

 

Then you use the "Cousin" argument. Newsflash Gribz - he isnt here so we have to get used to it. And, IMO, Boyd has been improving a great deal and his all-round play is getting better - not maybe to Cousin's standard.... YET, but he is working on his game. But here is the rub - you want Cousin to be the role model ? I remember watching him against Falkirk last season and he did NOTHING for 85 mins. His replacement did more in 5 mins than Cousin did the WHOLE game and, in fact, his replacement scored whereas Cousin didn't..... who was the replacement ? Yep, am sure you know !!! What was Cousin's scoring record for us ? I don't think it was prolific. Can he make a goal out of nothing ? Yes. Did he do it often ? No. Would Saturday's game been his "type" of game ? Not in my mind. He would have hidden like he did on so many other occasions.

 

Lafferty deserves a chance but at who's expense ? Boyd's ? Why ? Boyd hasn't warranted being dropped. His work-rate is decent and he tries to bring other players into the game - simply he is showing he is trying to improve. But Boyd should be dropped because he didn't score against Hearts - and that, in large part, due to the ineptitude of our midfield ? VERY HARSH.

 

I agree Re Championship sides down south. Thing is though, Lafferty still didn't score many goals in the games he played there. I am not saying get rid of Lafferty - he needs a shot in his preferred position - but I just don't see why Boyd should drop out for him. Boyd is one of the very few players who seems to have actually improved this season vs last season - yet he is top of the list when things go wrong and that is poor IMO.

 

Well said & exactly my sentiments as well.

[Gribz 846]

No I am NOT saying Boyd is the only one that will score - but by the same token you are trying to say that all the rest will score against all the better teams regardless of service, correct ?

Hypothetical question. Velicka and Lafferty are untried upfront.

 

The thing is.... not one of our strikers will score goals regularly if the service from the midfield is non-existent. Did you watch the game on Saturday ? Tell me just how Boyd should be singled out for criticism when the ONLY type of service he got was a high ball up the park. JCD was far worse than Boyd yet he escapes the whole "can only score against weaker teams" argument. It is a poor argument to make IMO.

 

Yes i watched the game on saturday. If you read the other posts ive pot since the game you will see Boyd is FAR from being singled out. Erm...didnt i start a thread on Ferguson?? - Yes!. At half time i in the match thread i gave a view on every player and tore into others such as Adam. So no, Boyd isnt being singled out. And IF we are to discuss Boyd on his own then the argument about his goal ratio against better teams cant be a poor argument - its evidence of his level.

 

Then when he improves his "team" performance it is "he needs to do it consistently over a number of games".

Of course he needs to do this. Infact i remember you saying the same thing, so why go back and use this as an argument against me now? Are you saying consistancy and proven ability is not important??

 

Then you use the "Cousin" argument. Newsflash Gribz - he isnt here so we have to get used to it.

Really?? I must get used to it then!

But here is the rub - you want Cousin to be the role model ?

No your putting words in my mouth. Quote me where i said i want him to be a role model. I said he showed the other strikers how to play the role fantastically well. The goal against Celtic was amazing which he created and scored. That what our strikers to be aspiring to.

 

 

 

Lafferty deserves a chance but at who's expense ? Boyd's ? Why ?

 

Again words in my mouth, i didnt specifically say Boyd, but its a possibility Boyd could make way. However with Miller going out injured it would have been the perfect chance. I dont even necessarily mean start Lafferty, bring him on for the last 30 mins for anyone of the strikers who is on the park.

 

- yet he is top of the list when things go wrong and that is poor IMO

Thats wrong. He isnt top of the list. Adam is top of the list. Followed by Burke, Ferguson, McGregor etc....and even WS for playing horrendous tactics and decision making. But Boyd shoudlnt gain any praise for having a stinker.

 

 

[Cotter 0]

Boydnet rules:notworthy:

[Zappa 0]

[craig 5,199]

Hypothetical question. Velicka and Lafferty are untried upfront.

 

Velicka was playing earlier in the season. Not as often as Boyd has been playing admittedly. However, he showed no more than Kris Boyd. That is for sure. Just what striker do we have on our books who would do better than Boyd ? I really am at a loss as to who you think would do a better job. Not one of our other strikers is prolific and, as ascender said, Boyd is probably not the problem - the problem is more to do with the lack of creativity from midfield. And to think that ANY striker will not struggle with no service is naive in my opinion.

 

Yes i watched the game on saturday. If you read the other posts ive pot since the game you will see Boyd is FAR from being singled out. Erm...didnt i start a thread on Ferguson?? - Yes!. At half time i in the match thread i gave a view on every player and tore into others such as Adam. So no, Boyd isnt being singled out. And IF we are to discuss Boyd on his own then the argument about his goal ratio against better teams cant be a poor argument - its evidence of his level.

 

Is it really evidence of his level though ? I don't think that it necessarily is. Just look at Saturday. The service to him was so poor that even a world-class striker would have struggled to score given that there was no service. You say it is a team game and have argued previously that Boyd needs to be a team player - well, the midfield need to step up as part of the team and create chances to allow Boyd to score. We can discuss his scoring ratio all we want but if the midfield dont create chances we wont score - regardless of whether it is Boyd, Novo, Velicka, Lafferty, Miller, Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov etc - no creation of chances=no goals - no matter who the striker is.

 

Of course he needs to do this. Infact i remember you saying the same thing, so why go back and use this as an argument against me now? Are you saying consistancy and proven ability is not important??

 

Correct (I did say this) but you are missing the point . The point was that as soon as he DID start doing this (which he HAS done) then there is always a ready-made DIFFERENT argument. When you have someone doing something wrong ("non-team player") and state he needs to correct that and said player then DOES correct that (and he has) is it fair to said player to then revert to a new argument. This has been debated ad nauseum on here - if he is more of a "team player" then you potentially lose goals from him and the fans really need to decide what they want. The guy is trying to add to his game and when he does as the fans requests but doesn't score a goal all of a sudden it is back to the old chestnut that "he doesnt score against the big teams". Even then though, if he doesnt get the service why should he get the blame for us not scoring ???. BTW, we shouldn't NEED Boyd to win us the game against Hearts.

 

No your putting words in my mouth. Quote me where i said i want him to be a role model. I said he showed the other strikers how to play the role fantastically well. The goal against Celtic was amazing which he created and scored. That what our strikers to be aspiring to.

 

Maybe it is just me but when you say "out strikers should be aspiring to" that suggests role model. However, lets leave the semantics aside. I am sure we all knew that you were going to use "that goal" and "that game" as your reason for making the Cousin statement. But let me get this straight. Boyd should be aspiring to play like Cousin ? So....... Boyd shows consistency over 6-8 games (playing well) and has a bad game and he "only scores against the smaller teams" whilst Cousin has one good game followed by 6-8 mediocre ones where he couldn't kick his own arse and, worse, couldn't CARE - and Boyd should aspire to that ? Something not right there, at least in my mind. here is the thing, Boyd is TRYING to add all those things to his game (anyone who has watched him since the Scotland debacle knows that he has improved his all-round performance considerably) yet it still isnt enough. Rome wasn't built in a day but he is trying to improve. Likewise, every player has a bad game but Boyd gets special mention - why is that ? Mendes has been awful since the OF game yet he is not criticised nearly as much as Boyd, who so happens to have been one of our better performers over the same timeframe - why is that ??

 

Again words in my mouth, i didnt specifically say Boyd, but its a possibility Boyd could make way. However with Miller going out injured it would have been the perfect chance. I dont even necessarily mean start Lafferty, bring him on for the last 30 mins for anyone of the strikers who is on the park.

 

I didn't put words in your mouth - you will notice I was asking a question, not saying you said anything. So we "possibly" drop Boyd who has been playing well (barring Hearts, and he has mitigation on his side in that game) to give Lafferty a run, a guy who looks short on confidence. Not for me. The way Boyd has been playing of late he should actually be one of the first names on the teamsheet - if that means JCD or Miller make way to give Lafferty a chance then so be it - but Lafferty shouldn't be used at Boyd's expense until Boyd is off-form - and one game cannot be considered as being off-form (especially when the other team-mates create nothing for him).

 

Thats wrong. He isnt top of the list. Adam is top of the list. Followed by Burke, Ferguson, McGregor etc....and even WS for playing horrendous tactics and decision making. But Boyd shoudlnt gain any praise for having a stinker.

 

No-one said that Boyd should gain praise for having a stinker. No-one praised his efforts on Saturday. The main thrust of those supporting Boyd is merely that he had NO SERVICE and even world-class strikers would struggle given what he had to play with on Saturday.

[Gribz 846]

Will reply in the morning Craigy mate...been up for 15 hours with no nap coz this show, so off to bed.

[craig 5,199]

Will reply in the morning Craigy mate...been up for 15 hours with no nap coz this show, so off to bed.

 

Phew, good for that Gribz ! I am busy at work today and had a worry this would be a lengthy debate.

 

How is the show going ? Is Stephen there?

[Gribz 846]

Phew, good for that Gribz ! I am busy at work today and had a worry this would be a lengthy debate.

 

How is the show going ? Is Stephen there?

 

Aye Im on no mood for "thinking" posts - much to everyones relief!

 

Show is pretty good, plenty beer flowing but ive had the car for 2 days. May leave it at home tomoro. The women are spectacular! Il try get some pics of a few asian hottys wearing hairbands for skirts!

 

Havent seen Steven, seen plenty others from the old team though. Mind you its on 2 huge halls so difficult to spot people.

[johnnyk 158]

I'd go as far as saying Boydy in that Arsenal team last night he would have won them the game :fish: he needs service and he would get that from a team such as them, I know many of you will laugh at him playing for such a team though :box:. He's a luxury striker IMO and if we are going to play him we need to play to his strengths not keep playing the long ball at every opportunity which doesn't work no matter how many times we try it !!!!

[Gribz 846]

I'd go as far as saying Boydy in that Arsenal team last night he would have won them the game :fish: he needs service and he would get that from a team such as them, I know many of you will laugh at him playing for such a team though :box:. He's a luxury striker IMO and if we are going to play him we need to play to his strengths not keep playing the long ball at every opportunity which doesn't work no matter how many times we try it !!!!

 

Thanks Johnny, that just woke me up! Been on the home brew all night?