Famine Song Statement

[Super_Ally 0]

Succinctly put Cal.

 

A few years ago I was threatened by police with arrest for singing Follow Follow when drunk walking through a park (not my brightest idea) as it was sectarian.

 

Asked his badge number and to explain what was sectarian about it, soon shut up and left me alone.

[ian1964 10,669]

25 Oct 2008, 09:11 PM Post #3

 

 

 

 

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My analysis of events so far is that action to stop the singing of TFS has been passed to the police. After more than 4 weeks they have done nothing.

 

Until now the only place to make an effective protest and demand action is to the relevant police authority after each game at which the song was heard, but that means e mails to each police authority in which games were played where the song was sung.

 

Any action already taken in this respect is good grist to the mill but in view of the number of instances of police inaction it is time to go over their heads.

 

So far since it first became a wide public issue after the game at Celtic Park I recall incidences of TFS at Easter Rd, Love St, and Hamilton where the singing has all been clearly audible.

If there are other instances of clear and audible singing of TFS that I have missed then post them here or add them to the following email that I suggest should go to the PCCS ( Police Complaints Commissioner for Scotland ) who have the following responsibiity:

 

(They The PCCC)

"can review how complaints about the behaviour of an individual police officer or staff member have been handled, as well as the quality of service given by a police force, police authority or policing agency. "

 

http://www.pcc-scotland.org/what-we-can-review.aspx

 

This forms legitimate grounds for complaining to the PCCC. The e mail of complaint would be on the lines of.

 

 

Subject heading: Police Inaction.

 

FAO Jim Martin

Police Complaints Commissioner for Scotland

 

On 31st August this year at Celtic Park supporters of Glasgow Rangers were heard singing in large numbers a song that has since been declared racist by those Scottish civil authorities charged with addressing racist behaviour in all its forms. Because it is racist the song breaches anti racism legislation and so is illegal and breaking the law.

 

Rangers supporters were subsequently warned in leaflets distributed at Ibrox on 21 September that if they continued to sing the offending song they would be subject to arrest.

 

Since then the song has been clearly heard at Easter Road v Hibernian on 28 September, Love St v St Mirren on 5th October and most recently in Hamilton v Hamilton Acas on 25th October.

There has been no apparent police action to enforce the law and that forms the substance of my complaint.

 

Why are the police taking no action?

Is the civil law of the land to be observed or is it a case of submitting to "mob rule"?

 

I would be grateful if you would investigate the reasons for police inaction and say what action the police are going to take to make sure that what is a good law in spirit is no longer treated with derision by those who are guilty of breaking it.

 

e mail to enquiries@pcc-scotland.org

 

Please send copy and paste the above message and send it to the PCCC and send a copy to every Celtic suporter that you have an address for and ask them to copy/paste it and send it as a separate e mail to the PCCC.

 

If this is going to work it is going to require lots of e mails even from the sceptics on KDS as well as any other Celtic supporters we can involve.

 

Taken from KDS.....................they really are a sad bunch of MOPES !!!!

[Gazza_8 233]

Surely it's the Police who are threatening to arrrest people over the song?

 

As far as I'm concerned they share a great deal of responsibility here.

 

Yes the police do arrest people who sing the song. As I said before they only enforce the law, they don't make it.

[maineflyer 0]

MF:

 

As I'm sure you know but for the benefit of others here is the timeline for the BB ban:

 

1. UEFA Open Proceedings after Villarreal match (09/03/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=512/newsId=402870.html

 

2. UEFA Fine Rangers but take no action against BB (13/04/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=413514.html

 

3. UEFA (Herr Kapl - Spiers' mole) appeal their own decision and over-turn BB decision (24/05/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=424237.html

 

4. Rangers Meet with Fans Groups over said action (RST, Assembly, Association, FF) (08/06/2006)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/football/teams/r/rangers/5064472.stm

 

5. Further meeting based on receipt of written UEFA Report (RST, Assembly, FF, TBO) (23/07/2006)

http://www.rangersassembly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=41

 

That meeting included the following statement:

 

 

 

Now, obviously I wasn't present at that particular meeting, but I sincerely believe the sanctions placed upon the club by UEFA are genuine.

 

I also obviously believe the sanctions are unfair and that the club should have done more to defend them. I've no idea why they didn't.

 

Perhaps you could write to UEFA or Rangers and ask them for a copy of the report. Not sure if either body are covered by FoI but as a fan affected by this decision, I'd be surprised if they didn't provide you with it - or at least the crucial clauses.

 

After all they are talking about their responsibility to fans....

 

I'm sure you have the relevant addresses.

 

Got the addresses and asked all the questions. Want to take aguess how much I achieved? No, you already know the answer. And you were part of the RST that could answer the questions either so I doubt if you have any more evidence than I do that any ban from any authority has ever existed. I read and hear lots of people going on about TBB being banned but I've never once found anyone other than Mark Dingwall actually put in writing that he KNEW the song had been banned. Of course, he has studiously refused to make any evidence available. Strange that.

 

I don't know there ISN'T a ban and as far as I can see, no one else knows for sure that there IS a ban. What a strange situation to be in. But entirely in keeping with David Murray's methods.

[maineflyer 0]

Yes the police do arrest people who sing the song. As I said before they only enforce the law, they don't make it.

 

Actually, they interpret the law and then seek to enforce it. As we have all seen time after time, their enforcement can be less than consistent and their interpretation can verge on the bizarre.

[Frankie 8,394]

Frankie, do you think that the ban could have been requested by the club to prevent (in their eyes) the risk of further sanctions?

 

Possibly. But I personally doubt it.

 

Remember UEFA backed the club initially and the club also spent a lot of time on their defence.

 

The capitulation after the Kapl appeal is bizarre but I don't buy the club being part of some conspiracy.

[Frankie 8,394]

Got the addresses and asked all the questions. Want to take aguess how much I achieved? No, you already know the answer. And you were part of the RST that could answer the questions either so I doubt if you have any more evidence than I do that any ban from any authority has ever existed. I read and hear lots of people going on about TBB being banned but I've never once found anyone other than Mark Dingwall actually put in writing that he KNEW the song had been banned. Of course, he has studiously refused to make any evidence available. Strange that.

 

I don't know there ISN'T a ban and as far as I can see, no one else knows for sure that there IS a ban. What a strange situation to be in. But entirely in keeping with David Murray's methods.

 

It's a fair point so I can understand your frustration.

 

At an informal meeting with the club (before the St Johnstone defeat a couple of years back), this subject arose. I was there with DE, SM and MM IIRC. Bain showed us a document which he claimed was the UEFA edict.

 

I never got the chance to read it but took him and SDM (who was also present) at their word. Obviously, I don't trust either of them all that much but had already been told about the document from other board members.

 

Have these people actually seen the document? Was it fake? Were Rangers complicit with UEFA in the directive? Were supporters duped?

 

All valid enough questions but IMO it's questions we'll never find out the answer to.

 

But, I'll tell you what, I'll try and do a bit of digging.

 

[Bluedell 5,513]

Yes the police do arrest people who sing the song. As I said before they only enforce the law, they don't make it.

 

As MF has already said, the police interpret it. If they don't then why are they issuing statements on the song?

 

Under what grounds have they arrested people? What are they being charged with?

[JMS 0]

As MF has already said, the police interpret it. If they don't then why are they issuing statements on the song?

 

Under what grounds have they arrested people? What are they being charged with?

 

 

Breach......

[JMS 0]

It's a fair point so I can understand your frustration.

 

At an informal meeting with the club (before the St Johnstone defeat a couple of years back), this subject arose. I was there with DE, SM and MM IIRC. Bain showed us a document which he claimed was the UEFA edict.

 

I never got the chance to read it but took him and SDM (who was also present) at their word. Obviously, I don't trust either of them all that much but had already been told about the document from other board members.

 

Have these people actually seen the document? Was it fake? Were Rangers complicit with UEFA in the directive? Were supporters duped?

 

All valid enough questions but IMO it's questions we'll never find out the answer to.

 

But, I'll tell you what, I'll try and do a bit of digging.

 

 

 

The Billy Boys meant fukk all to you obviously, because if it did you would have done your digging then.

 

I wrote to the "pope of rules" at yoofa at the time and recieved a reply from a Peter Limacher Head of Disciplinary Services.

 

Oh and bytheway mate all the rst guys that I spoke to said the same thing, "They had not seen the document but had been assured that TBB was banned.

 

And then it was spread all over the papers, funny that.