Famine Song Statement

[craig 5,199]

You are kidding right? Media maybe but the police?

 

The police don't make the laws of the country, they enforce them. We're only doing a job so what's the problem?

 

I can't/don't understand why the police are getting it tight here?

 

You make a good point Gav. The police only enforce the law - but that then begs the question that someone within the judicial ranks should come out and state the position and also justify it.

[Gazza_8 233]

I actually do believe you Gav, just couldn't pass up the chance of a wind-up (poor though it was)

 

Aye mate, it was utter baws!

 

Should I start calling you Jon from now on? :fish:

[maineflyer 0]

I don't think either song is banned outside football grounds as Hullo, hullo is actually banned by UEFA and therefore the SFA by default and with threats of point deductions and bans from Europe, Rangers themselves are enforcing the ban at Ibrox. That song COULD result in arrest and conviction but it would be up to the police and courts, how the song is interpretted and whether it breaks any laws. With the recent fuss over the song, a conviction could be likely for breach of the peace and incitement to sectarian hatred.

 

The Plastic Paddy song has been condemned by the SFA/SPL and so Rangers have "requested" fans don't sing it, in case they may be arrested and probably more importantly to the board, in case Rangers are punished. I've not read whether the stewards are instructed to enforce this request. The police don't seem to have a clear posture on this song.

 

Please don't take this as criticism of your post but I don't think there is a shred of actual evidence that TBB has been banned by anyone other than the chairman of Rangers. I see no evidence that UEFA banned it and I can't recall the police of PF's office ever announce any ban. Sure, there has been a great deal of talk about a ban and some have even been encouraged to promote the notion that a ban exists. However, I think if you look for hard evidence of a ban you will find none.

 

What we did have was a certain Mr Dingwall going to extraordinary lengths to persuade members on FF that the song was banned, the tune was banned and the thought police were alert and ready if anyone even daydreamed the song. I believe there have been some unforgivable lies perpetrated over this matter - all of which emerged mysteriously one of those smoke-filled jaffa cake session with said chairman of Rangers. Unpicking the inferences and half-truths from this isn't easy because we were all subjected to one of Murray's full-on spinfests.

 

But perhaps you know more. If so, I'd like to hear it. I've had this debate on several other forums and nothing concrete has ever come to light.

[Gazza_8 233]

See if all the gersnet users who are pissed off with the police for everything that's going wrong in Scotland then I urge you to talk to someone at HQ rather than bad mouth them on here.

[Super_Ally 0]

Forgot you were polis gav,

 

Tbf it's more politicians/journo's that rile me.

[Frankie 8,394]

MF:

 

As I'm sure you know but for the benefit of others here is the timeline for the BB ban:

 

1. UEFA Open Proceedings after Villarreal match (09/03/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=512/newsId=402870.html

 

2. UEFA Fine Rangers but take no action against BB (13/04/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=413514.html

 

3. UEFA (Herr Kapl - Spiers' mole) appeal their own decision and over-turn BB decision (24/05/2006)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=424237.html

 

4. Rangers Meet with Fans Groups over said action (RST, Assembly, Association, FF) (08/06/2006)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/football/teams/r/rangers/5064472.stm

 

5. Further meeting based on receipt of written UEFA Report (RST, Assembly, FF, TBO) (23/07/2006)

http://www.rangersassembly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=41

 

That meeting included the following statement:

 

This meeting coincidently coincided with UEFA’s written grounds for the decision rendered by the Appeal Body in relation to Rangers two Champions League matches against Villarreal. UEFA have issued the Club with certain directives in order to combat sectarianism more efficiently. Firstly the Club has been ‘ordered to announce measurable targets in order to reduce sectarian behaviour amongst its supporters’. Secondly ‘to control their anti-sectarian activities by producing comprehensive statistics that are communicated to the public’. Finally ‘to make a public address announcement at every official fixture, be it international or domestic, stating that any sectarian chanting and any form of ‘Billy Boys’ songs is strictly prohibited.’

 

Now, obviously I wasn't present at that particular meeting, but I sincerely believe the sanctions placed upon the club by UEFA are genuine.

 

I also obviously believe the sanctions are unfair and that the club should have done more to defend them. I've no idea why they didn't.

 

Perhaps you could write to UEFA or Rangers and ask them for a copy of the report. Not sure if either body are covered by FoI but as a fan affected by this decision, I'd be surprised if they didn't provide you with it - or at least the crucial clauses.

 

After all they are talking about their responsibility to fans....

 

I'm sure you have the relevant addresses.

[Bluedell 5,513]

 

That's right, it's the fault of the big, bad police.

 

Surely it's the Police who are threatening to arrrest people over the song?

 

As far as I'm concerned they share a great deal of responsibility here.

[Bluedell 5,513]

See if all the gersnet users who are pissed off with the police for everything that's going wrong in Scotland then I urge you to talk to someone at HQ rather than bad mouth them on here.

 

If the Police came out with a statement saying why exactly they were threatening to arrest people than I wouldn't need to have to contact them. Until they do, I reserve the right to bad mouth them on this issue.

[Bluedell 5,513]

Frankie, do you think that the ban could have been requested by the club to prevent (in their eyes) the risk of further sanctions?

[calscot 0]

I think the trouble people have with the police is that they fear arrest for something that they don't know if it is a crime or not and which is up to the interpretation of the police themselves. The police are culpable here in that they will not say what song is a crime and what isn't.

 

This makes people's right to free speech (within the law) somewhat ambiguous and makes the police appear oppressive to law abiding people as a result.

 

Most people are well behind the police when they are tackling obvious criminals but they get a bad press when people who feel they are innocent and law abiding are threatened with arrest for reasons they don't understand or agree with.