SPL on alert over racist chant

[bmck 117]

It's been on youtube.

 

dear god. what an insane world we live in. now nutters on youtube have become generally representative of groups of people. we're all doomed.

[Bluedell 5,614]

From youtube to messageboards to the Irish government. Only 2 steps involved. Very sad in so many ways.

[calscot 0]

Don't Scots who live in Scotland but pretend to be Irish once a fortnight and go along to parkhead and sing about the famine not deserve to get the piss taken out of them?

 

The chant isn't aimed at Irish people.

 

I think you're missing the point. Taking the piss out of someone is a bit of an art, and I don't know anyone who succeeds in taking the piss after it has blown out of control and includes the involvement of the police.

 

When you're so called "joke" goes down like a lead balloon and is referred to the police, it's time to stop using it and think up a new one before you make a fool of yourself at best and get at arrested at worst.

 

The joke has been made, the response is there, so why continue it? No-one who repeats the same joke after it has such a reaction is considered funny.

 

For example pulling the chair from someone as they sit down is funny once. When you've done it to them 20 times and they've called the police, you've graduated from jolly japester to fuckwit. Our fans are in danger of progressing the same way.

 

If your joke is misinterpreted, there's no point in trying to continually explain it while still using it.

 

Anyway, to be funny, you've got to keep it fresh and original...

[Bluedell 5,614]

I think you're missing the point. Taking the piss out of someone is a bit of an art, and I don't know anyone who succeeds in taking the piss after it has blown out of control and includes the involvement of the police.

 

When you're so called "joke" goes down like a lead balloon and is referred to the police, it's time to stop using it and think up a new one before you make a fool of yourself at best and get at arrested at worst.

 

The joke has been made, the response is there, so why continue it? No-one who repeats the same joke after it has such a reaction is considered funny.

 

For example pulling the chair from someone as they sit down is funny once. When you've done it to them 20 times and they've called the police, you've graduated from jolly japester to fuckwit. Our fans are in danger of progressing the same way.

 

If your joke is misinterpreted, there's no point in trying to continually explain it while still using it.

 

Anyway, to be funny, you've got to keep it fresh and original...

So every time Celtic fans deliberately misinterpret something we should fall into line like good little boys and do whatever they want?

 

It's not illegal to tell bad jokes.

 

It's like someone claiming Flower of Scotland is racist and should be banned. It's a dreadful song, should be binned, but it's not racist, even though some claim that it is. However should the SFA bend over and stop playing it because some people deliberately misinterpret it? Of course not.

 

I'm not a fan of the chant, and it's cringeworthy at times (UEFA Cup final FFS), but I do defend our fans the right to chant it, as it's not racist.

 

They have already had a go at the bouncy as well, telling lies about it. Should we stop doing it despite the fact that the bouncy predates Robert Hammill's death or should we continue to make that point?

 

Should we get their permission before any new chant in case they wish to take some interpretation on it that we hadn't thought of?

 

Where do you draw the line?

[ascender 352]

I just think that there's times where we really don't help ourselves as a support and walk in to these things.

 

It depends how we as a club and support want to try and address this. Do we take the approach which has been mentioned above, where we become "squeaky clean" and sing or do nothing which could ever be construed as sectarian, racist etc.

 

Or do we get up for the fight and stand up for what we believe in and make a stand against the over-PC nature of this whole thing?

 

The second approach could be difficult as we don't have the backing of a strong Chairman or owner.

 

I think to the outsiders looking in, both sides are being seen as as bad as each other, especially as any debate on the issue turns in to a "he said, she said" type thing.

[calscot 0]

So every time Celtic fans deliberately misinterpret something we should fall into line like good little boys and do whatever they want?

 

No, we don't need to care what Timmy thinks but it's how we're portrayed to the rest of the world that counts. We have to be more clever instead of the rest of the world seeing us as morons all the time.

 

Many of our fans think we look cool and funny and showing up the Tims when the result is actually the opposite. It's like the young guys who wheelspin away in their cars all the time and racing along residential areas, thinking they look cool, when everyone else is actually thinking, "what a complete arsehole."

 

Our fans need to wake up and grow up fast.

 

 

It's not illegal to tell bad jokes.

 

No there isn't but if you continually tell really bad jokes that people perceive as offensive, then your reputation will be shot and no-one will respect you or take you seriously. Is that what our fans want?

 

It's like someone claiming Flower of Scotland is racist and should be banned. It's a dreadful song, should be binned, but it's not racist, even though some claim that it is.

 

Only idiots claim it is racist. Singing about sending a bully home with a bloody nose is not racist and no intelligent person could think otherwise.

 

However should the SFA bend over and stop playing it because some people deliberately misinterpret it? Of course not.

 

Again it's how it's perceived and I don't know how you can compare it to the famine song. Flower of Scotland is pretty factual and hurts nobody. It does not even tell English people to go home or have any relation to lines about Englishmen being rapists. It does not denegrate any race in anyway but merely tells the story of the people of Scotland winning against an aggressor led by King Edward. There is actually no reference to the English whatsoever.

 

In fact FOS is even highly understated, "sent him homeward, tae think again" wouldn't even offend King Edward himself after such a humiliation on the battle field where he had a vastly larger and more professional army.

 

FOS is an inspiration - can you really say the same of the Famine song?

 

If you think there is a similarity then you are as guilty as Celtic fans who go on about similarities to mocking the Holocaust.

 

I really think such a comparison is well beneath your intelligence.

 

I'm not a fan of the chant, and it's cringeworthy at times (UEFA Cup final FFS), but I do defend our fans the right to chant it, as it's not racist.

 

It might not be conclusively racist but it sails pretty close to the wind. It's not even appropriate unless it sung against Celtic, and even then doesn't make any sense whatsoever unless they sing the Fields first.

 

At best it's just plain stupid. Without a feeder line there is no punchline.

 

They have already had a go at the bouncy as well, telling lies about it. Should we stop doing it despite the fact that the bouncy predates Robert Hammill's death or should we continue to make that point?

 

Again that's different and the world does not see anything wrong with the bouncy.

 

Should we get their permission before any new chant in case they wish to take some interpretation on it that we hadn't thought of?

 

I just think we need to be more clever and consider how the world sees us. Surely we can wind them up without looking to all and sundry like bigots?

 

 

Where do you draw the line?

 

That's a tough question but it seems obvious that Rangers fans cross the line far too frequently and Timmy is the one coming out smelling of roses.

 

I've said it before and it's still valid - maybe they are just more clever than us...

 

We certainly don't go out of our way to prove otherwise.

[Bluedell 5,614]

No, we don't need to care what Timmy thinks but it's how we're portrayed to the rest of the world that counts. We have to be more clever instead of the rest of the world seeing us as morons all the time.

 

Many of our fans think we look cool and funny and showing up the Tims when the result is actually the opposite. It's like the young guys who wheelspin away in their cars all the time and racing along residential areas, thinking they look cool, when everyone else is actually thinking, "what a complete arsehole."

 

Our fans need to wake up and grow up fast.

I'd largely agree, but you can't force people to be mature. People have the right to be assholes.

 

 

No there isn't but if you continually tell really bad jokes that people perceive as offensive, then your reputation will be shot and no-one will respect you or take you seriously. Is that what our fans want?

If you firmly believe that it's not offensive and the people who pretend to find it offensive are the ones who have the problem then should you not try and fight for what you believe in?

 

Only idiots claim it is racist. Singing about sending a bully home with a bloody nose is not racist and no intelligent person could think otherwise.

Only idiots claim the chant is racist, but here we are.

If you think there is a similarity then you are as guilty as Celtic fans who go on about similarities to mocking the Holocaust.

 

I really think such a comparison is well beneath your intelligence.

I think both claims are as ludicrous as each other.

 

It might not be conclusively racist but it sails pretty close to the wind. It's not even appropriate unless it sung against Celtic, and even then doesn't make any sense whatsoever unless they sing the Fields first.

 

At best it's just plain stupid. Without a feeder line there is no punchline.

We as a support should be allowed to sing things that are stupid and make no sense. Likewise we can sing things that are close to the wind. that's what football fans do.

 

Again that's different and the world does not see anything wrong with the bouncy.

Only because they have been less successful in their atttempts. I take it if the world did see something wrong with it, we should stop?

 

 

I just think we need to be more clever and consider how the world sees us. Surely we can wind them up without looking to all and sundry like bigots?

No. It seems that it's not allowed. They will end up putting a spin on anything, eg the bouncy, TBO's banner at the last old firm game etc. It just depends on their degree of success.

 

 

 

That's a tough question but it seems obvious that Rangers fans cross the line far too frequently and Timmy is the one coming out smelling of roses.

 

I've said it before and it's still valid - maybe they are just more clever than us...

They have the weight of the press behind them. We don't. That's the difference. They also have believers in charge of them. We don't. Perhaps the former is the result of the latter.

 

The Novo song, their IRA ditties - all more offensive but it's us who get the publicity. We have drawn a line. More need to get behind it.

[calscot 0]

People do have the right to be stupid but you have to wonder what they are trying to achieve especially when they push it too far and end up losing their rights because of it.

 

You may want to defend people's right to be stupid but then is that really a cause worth fighting?

 

As for the publicity, I'm sure if we stopped making the headlines for the wrong reasons, they would start to fill them. When you overshadow someone they never get noticed.

 

If we want Timmy to be found out and people to notice their bile, we have to quieten down so they can be easily heard.

 

At the moment we're seen as worse than them, so they get ignored and we stupidly keep feeding the press with reasons to focus on us.

 

We're our own worst enemy and seem too wrapped up in our own sense of the injustice to notice that we're acting very guiltily.

[Zappa 0]

If we want Timmy to be found out and people to notice their bile, we have to quieten down so they can be easily heard.

 

At the moment we're seen as worse than them, so they get ignored and we stupidly keep feeding the press with reasons to focus on us.

 

We're our own worst enemy and seem too wrapped up in our own sense of the injustice to notice that we're acting very guiltily.

 

+1 (I have to agree)