Attitude to SDM

[maineflyer 0]

And recently has he not made a reasonably good fist of both?

No, he's made a complete dog's breakfast of it. The team is a shambles, the results have been dire, the management seem in disarray, money is being squandered without purpose or return. What fist is it you are looking at?

[Gribz 850]

I dont doubt that he wants success aswell. I dont doubt anyone at Rangers wants anything other than success. But it takes a lot more than desire and hope from the top.

 

Im sure the St Mirren chairman wants success but he has to be realistic about it and so does SDM.

[franker 3]

Calscot

I'm not that impressed with our contributions. We bring the club into disrepute with sectarian crap, Ibrox is like a morgue, we cause trouble and even riot on our travels, we boo our own players, and even when we're winning and doing well all we do is moan about the style of football. We hound our managers mercilessly and continuously slag off our players. Also when we're asked to put up about 7M in a share issue, we put up about 1M - Celtic fans have raised about 50M in share issues which is what put them back into financial health.

 

In answer to the above please note-:

 

In my forty plus years of attending football matches in Scotland, there has not been 1 season where both Rangers and Celtic fans have not indulged in what has now become termed sectarian(i repeat both clubs) You seem to infer this only occurs at Rangers games-wrong.

 

As regards Ibrox being a morgue, then i can assure you as someone who has has to attend hospitality functions at both grounds, despite the hype, Celtic park for a normal league game is no different.

 

Hounding our managers? Strachan was the subject of the worst public demonstration of fan abuse last season after the home defeat by Motherwell.(despite going for 3 in a row and qualifying for the latter stages of the champions league)

Old Firm managers are under pressure, more so than most British clubs, it goes with the territory.

 

Regarding the 7 million share issue versus theirs. Circumstances can dictate

fan support as you well know. During our successful period under Murray, Rangers fans were investing millions through season tickets, club deck bonds and the seat placement guarantee. During this period, Celtic fans had the option to invest in their club, primarily through season tickets, something which they did not do. It was only when McCann came along and provided an opportunity for the first time in Celtics history, to invest in shares and riding along on the back of the euphoria of regime change many participated. No surprise there.

 

With regard to the 7 million Rangers share issue flop, is it any wonder? We had seen one of the worst cases of financial mishandling in British football history by our chairman, which resulted in huge debts of 75 million ( that was after a property revaluation). Joe Lewis and Dave Kings 60 million investment was heading south and at the same time Murray personal wealth was soaring northwards (his wealth from 2000 to 2007 increased by half a billion) Are you really surprised that ordinary working class supporters did not dip into their pockets and buy shares to fill part of the hole that a multi millionaire(fastracking towards billionaire) chairman had dug????

 

Regarding the last Celtic share issue of 15million. The split was 8 million from Dermot Desmond and 3.8 million was contributed from millionaire Celtic fans with another 3 million from ordinary fans. As regarding the hype that it was oversubscribed, it was heading for a substantial shortfall, hence the millionaires input after some arm twisting .

 

One area where Celtic are light years ahead and that is their public image, their spin if you like(a bit like new labour under Alistair Campbell). People are ready to believe what they and their apologists in the press put out-in fact its so good some people believe Rangers are the only club with a so called sectarian singing problem��....

[maineflyer 0]

I dont doubt that he wants success aswell. I dont doubt anyone at Rangers wants anything other than success. But it takes a lot more than desire and hope from the top.

 

Im sure the St Mirren chairman wants success but he has to be realistic about it and so does SDM.

But this isn't St Mirren and as the most successful club in Scotland the support has every right to aspire to further success. The only question for me is whether Murray can deliver what others delivered before him. Rangers didn't start being successful when Murray arrived and they won't stop being successful when he leaves.

[bmck 117]

I would disagree there, I think it's far more personal for him and is connected to his ego. Our fans are more worried about which badge a player kissed, which religion they are, and how prettily we play football than any success.

 

i've read enough to know all about SDM's ego. it was the motivation for overspending money that wasn't his in the DA era. i think he's just lost animation for it - i think he finds it hard to care one way or the other right now (he's trying to sell the club ffs, how much ambition can he have?), and so he's trying to do a sensible job. and that he is. sensible but not long term. sensible but not visionary. you can argue all day that he's being sensible - which he is. but he's not prudence combined with driving determination. he's prudence combined with short termism (to some extent).

 

its not an sdm bash here calscot - for any bad he's done he's done good - but i dont think even he would argue that he's got the same drive as he had before. he's being a responsible steward, not a glorious leader. the latter's what we need.

 

oh, and fans should be worried about that sort of thing, they're not businessmen.

 

He also knows he has to look after the long term finances of the club, something which most of our fans just don't seem to understand.

 

its not their job to understand - its their job to pay their money and see a decent product. like every consumer, sometimes they moan, sometimes they rejoice. i think people are weary because since AM we've went downhill, and it's been a good many years now since we played consistently good football. the truth is, AM has probably been the best of the tight-budget managers.

 

we needed a PLG type to change the culture at ibrox to take us forward. for a million reasons, that never transpired, and for people paying premium money week in week out to see crappy football and ground out results, its hard to take any talk of moonbeams seriously.

 

we've been consistently patronised and lied to, and now we're out of europe in the most embarresing fashion yet.

 

fans arent meant to be analysts, their job is to demand a high standard of product and watch the people who take their money do their utmost. fiscal prudence is one part of 'utmost' - the rest isnt there.

[calscot 0]

i've read enough to know all about SDM's ego. it was the motivation for overspending money that wasn't his in the DA era. i think he's just lost animation for it - i think he finds it hard to care one way or the other right now (he's trying to sell the club ffs, how much ambition can he have?), and so he's trying to do a sensible job. and that he is. sensible but not long term. sensible but not visionary. you can argue all day that he's being sensible - which he is. but he's not prudence combined with driving determination. he's prudence combined with short termism (to some extent).

 

its not an sdm bash here calscot - for any bad he's done he's done good - but i dont think even he would argue that he's got the same drive as he had before. he's being a responsible steward, not a glorious leader. the latter's what we need.

 

oh, and fans should be worried about that sort of thing, they're not businessmen.

 

I pretty much agree with what you are saying although I do think selling something gives you additional motivation to get it in good shape.

 

The most effort into diy I've ever done was to sell a house - just as it became quite nice to live in.

 

The thing is while I agree with you it's precisely because you're not doing what so many fans are doing. You understand the situation and don't see him as someone deliberately running the club down and trying to syphon off as much money as possible.

 

its not their job to understand

 

I think it IS there job to understand if they want to criticise certain aspects, especially the finances. You can't go around accusing people of stealing �£30M just because you think you know about money when you've pretty much got a primary school understanding and would struggle to balance your pocket money. It's like a child complaining to his dad about not getting a brand new PS3 or whatever while his dad struggles to pay the mortgage, loans and bills.

 

- its their job to pay their money and see a decent product. like every consumer, sometimes they moan, sometimes they rejoice.

 

If they are a consumer then they are entitled to take their business elsewhere if they don't like the product. I don't think you can always compare fans to consumers. Part of being a fan is thoaling the bad times. It also depends what kind of person you are - do you want to focus on results or aesthetics - it's easy to say "both" but much harder to actually implement it.

 

i think people are weary because since AM we've went downhill, and it's been a good many years now since we played consistently good football. the truth is, AM has probably been the best of the tight-budget managers.

 

I would argue that for Kaunas we have Zhizkov, for losing the league by 3 points we have losing the league by 17 points, for winning 2 out of 2 cups, Eck's got 4 out of 10, for Eck's Euro run, we had the UEFA cup final.

 

Eck averaged about 10pts less than Celtic per season, Smith has averaged about 2 more.

 

For Smiths boring football that rolled over lesser teams and fought bravely to win against bigger ones, Eck had a boring farce of a team which had to fight bravely to win against the wee teams and capitulated badly against the bigger ones.

 

Smith has a record of 4 wins to 2 against Celtic, I can't remember Eck's but it was bad.

 

Walter has balls up big time but he's still doing better than Eck. He just needs a league win this year to have a comprehensively better record.

 

we needed a PLG type to change the culture at ibrox to take us forward. for a million reasons, that never transpired, and for people paying premium money week in week out to see crappy football and ground out results, its hard to take any talk of moonbeams seriously.

 

I doubt anyone took moonbeams seriously. We did need a PLG type and got the man himself, only he can tell us why he failed so badly.

 

we've been consistently patronised and lied to, and now we're out of europe in the most embarresing fashion yet.

 

That is something that definitely deserves criticism and I have no problem with that.

 

fans arent meant to be analysts, their job is to demand a high standard of product and watch the people who take their money do their utmost. fiscal prudence is one part of 'utmost' - the rest isnt there.

 

This is where I'm not sure you can blame SDM. Seems to me that Walter gets the blame here. SDM has furnished him with a decent budget, fantastic training facilities and highly respected backroom staff.

 

The only thing he can be blamed for was the sale of Hutton of which I can understand completely - and Walter has got all the money back to spend.

 

Smith was a highly regarded manager and popular choice with many and he did a great job until the turn of this year where we seemed to have hit a slippery slope.

 

I think the buck has to stop with Walter for this season's debacle.

[maineflyer 0]

There are in fact two bucks. A Big Buck and a Small Buck. Because they are different sizes, they stop at different places.

 

The Big Buck is the really important one and stops exclusively at David Murray's door. The Big Buck is ultimately responsible for everything that happens at Rangers, including all the other Bucks, regardless of size. That's what Big Bucks are about.

 

The Small Buck is specifically responsible for team matters and this Buck only stops at Walter Smith's door.

 

In the past, there was a Thing called the Honourable Thing which saw to it that responsibility was accepted by the guy with the Buck at his door. Nowadays, the Honourable Thing has gone to live elsewhere and no longer visits Ibrox, so no one really gives a shyt or is willing to put their neck on the line. This is the age of the snake. The snake almost always lives in the place with the Big Buck at the door.

[pete 2,499]

I am possibly the only one on here that thinks this but i honestly believe PLG was on the right road to sorting things out. Unfortunately he attacked Barry,and that cost him his job,You cannot attack captain fanny-tastic. If PLG was given the money that Walter got we would be in a better position than we are now. In my opinion of course.

[maineflyer 0]

I am possibly the only one on here that thinks this but i honestly believe PLG was on the right road to sorting things out. Unfortunately he attacked Barry,and that cost him his job,You cannot attack captain fanny-tastic. If PLG was given the money that Walter got we would be in a better position than we are now. In my opinion of course.

At the time I couldn't see past the hopelessness of the situation and I'm not convinced PLG had what it takes - but I agree completely that a complete revolution is needed in the way this club works, on and off the pitch. Something that will sweep away the drip drip drip of mediocrity that we're mired in, including captains who think they should be running the team.

[pete 2,499]

At the time I couldn't see past the hopelessness of the situation and I'm not convinced PLG had what it takes - but I agree completely that a complete revolution is needed in the way this club works, on and off the pitch. Something that will sweep away the drip drip drip of mediocrity that we're mired in, including captains who think they should be running the team.

 

While i think his signings were suspect,i honestly believe he was told he had little money to spend and tried to gamble on players who had done well in a competition on the same standing as the SPL. Papic not being great at CH in the SPL was probably the difference between failure and success.