Attitude to SDM

[Wija 0]

Very astute first post Franker....

 

Smoke and mirrors are used on a regular basis by C****c and they are never used by Rangers. I wish this to continue. They will tell a tale too often and will fall over themselves.

 

OK we should use the mhedia more wisely and that is something the Chairman needs to address.

 

 

The thing is though last year they were something like �£30 million pounds better off than us (to June 2007 from June 2006 I believe) They have spent hee haw this year so far, and TBH have not spent anything big on any decent players.... is it possible the man management of GS that is actually that good, or is it our average players are so much poorer than theres?

[maineflyer 0]

Very astute first post Franker....

 

Smoke and mirrors are used on a regular basis by C****c and they are never used by Rangers. I wish this to continue. They will tell a tale too often and will fall over themselves.

 

OK we should use the mhedia more wisely and that is something the Chairman needs to address.

 

 

The thing is though last year they were something like �£30 million pounds better off than us (to June 2007 from June 2006 I believe) They have spent hee haw this year so far, and TBH have not spent anything big on any decent players.... is it possible the man management of GS that is actually that good, or is it our average players are so much poorer than theres?

Like most Rangers supporters I'm more concerned with the situation at Ibrox than any comparisons with other clubs, even celtic. And no smoke and mirrors at Rangers? I thought David Murray invented them. Maybe I'm confusing them with moonbeams?

[bmck 117]

i think this sdm-is-the-antichrist talk is too much. his record in the -90s was outstanding, his record in the 00s is horrible. he's done good and bad. what good does it do anyone to paint him as some supervilian? it's hard to take seriously.

[calscot 0]

I am possibly the only one on here that thinks this but i honestly believe PLG was on the right road to sorting things out. Unfortunately he attacked Barry,and that cost him his job,You cannot attack captain fanny-tastic. If PLG was given the money that Walter got we would be in a better position than we are now. In my opinion of course.

 

For the umpteenth time I have to point out that PLG was not sacked because of Barry Ferguson, it was his horrendous run of results and refusal to acknowledge what was wrong with his team and his responsibility to that effect.

 

Had his team been constantly winning with style, been at the top of the league and beaten St Johnstone in the league cup, it would have been been Barry who would have left the club.

 

Basically PLG tried to use Ferguson as a scapegoat for his own inadequacies but it just didn't wash.

[calscot 0]

PS I think there is now a parallel between PLG and WS. Walter has lately seemed blind to the obvious failings of his team/squad and as he has not properly acknowledged them, he has not addressed them.

 

He has had a go at the fans instead of taking some valid criticism on the chin and is now blaming the players.

 

There is nothing in management so destructive as denial and our last three managers seemed to have suffered that affliction.

[calscot 0]

No, he's made a complete dog's breakfast of it. The team is a shambles, the results have been dire, the management seem in disarray, money is being squandered without purpose or return. What fist is it you are looking at?

 

Like I said, tell me what exactly he has done wrong, bar choose his management team?

 

What more can a chairman do than pick the management team, provide a reasonable budget while looking after club finances, and provide decent training facilities and stadium to play in.

 

Once he's done that, in what way can he influence results without going down the Romanov route?

 

I think it's a pretty good thing that he has not chosen the team and has not chosen which players to spend the money on and that he does not interfere with the management, which is where all your criticism is based.

 

At the time, choosing Walter was not a badly thought out decision, the budget he has supplied has been ample with respect to our wealth and the training facilities are fantastic.

 

A few months ago we'd beaten Celtic 4 times in a row, were 10 points ahead of them and were in the latter stages of 3 cups.

 

Just how is SDM responsible for the complete collapse of the players' form?

 

Like I said I'm not a fan of SDM but I'm struggling to see how he's responsible in this case.

 

Even now, the only thing he can do, ranges from giving Walter a bollocking to sacking him.

[maineflyer 0]

i think this sdm-is-the-antichrist talk is too much. his record in the -90s was outstanding, his record in the 00s is horrible. he's done good and bad. what good does it do anyone to paint him as some supervilian? it's hard to take seriously.

Oh let me see, there must be a reason there somewhere. How about the day he nailed his colours to the mast and announced to the whole world that celtic supporters are more loyal than Rangers supporters? Or allowing celtic fans and others to use TBB tune while banning Rangers fans from doing the same thing? Or his inability to find and attract a credible manager since Souness left (think about it)?

 

The club used to own the Albion, the shops, the catering - where did these assets go? Edmiston House, sold for a song. The ludicrous deal with JJB, allowing the once-mighty merchandising operation to go to the dogs. The complete lack of any scouting operation. Total unwillingness to counteract media-based attacks on the club and its fans. Propping up season ticket sales with duplicitous announcements year after year - casino anyone, the Ibrox resort?

 

Interesting to hear you defend his 1990's record as outstanding. You might want to remember thatw e were successful and had turned the ship around before Murray darkened our door. Holmes and Souness were the real catalysts for change. The foundations of NIAR were already largely in place - by 1997 the club had been allowed to grind to a standstill and from a position of strength we had to completely rebuild - and after doing so at huge financial cost and with celtic in disarray, we again allowed supremacy to slip through our fingers.

 

He inherited a successful club and turned it into the shambles we see today. The stadium is a mess, the ticket office a disaster, the stewards treat Rangers fans like dirt, we are clubbed and beaten at away games in Europe and the club says it served us right! At every turn this liar who owns us reminds us of NIAR as if it was his to flaunt. But he's obviously fooled enough of you to keep him sweet.

[calscot 0]

In answer to the above please note-:

 

In my forty plus years of attending football matches in Scotland, there has not been 1 season where both Rangers and Celtic fans have not indulged in what has now become termed sectarian(i repeat both clubs) You seem to infer this only occurs at Rangers games-wrong.

 

I've always actually thought that Celtic fans are actually far worse sectarian wise than Rangers fans, although I think they are far more clever about how they go about it, which is why we're always the ones that get caught.

 

Rangers fans need to learn that shooting yourself in the foot while trying to wind someone up is pretty stupid indeed.

 

As regards Ibrox being a morgue, then i can assure you as someone who has has to attend hospitality functions at both grounds, despite the hype, Celtic park for a normal league game is no different.

 

I don't doubt Celtic park is also a morgue but I think both sets of fans should take a look at themselves before slagging off their teams for lackluster performances. I always think you should only criticise people for stuff that you are reasonably innocent of. If the fans are giving it their all, encouraging rather than booing, and there is still a performance with no heart on the pitch, then they really have cause for complaint.

 

Hounding our managers? Strachan was the subject of the worst public demonstration of fan abuse last season after the home defeat by Motherwell.(despite going for 3 in a row and qualifying for the latter stages of the champions league)

Old Firm managers are under pressure, more so than most British clubs, it goes with the territory.

 

Celtic fans have shown themselves up there and are either almost gutted Strachan won the league or completely ashamed of themselves. However, I'm of the thinking that Strachan only won by default after our players failed to deliver their best when under pressure of so many games.

 

I can't imagine that Celtic fans helped their team but as the criticism was more aimed at the manager, I actually think Strachan did a good job of absorbing it and protecting his team from it.

 

 

Regarding the 7 million share issue versus theirs. Circumstances can dictate

fan support as you well know. During our successful period under Murray, Rangers fans were investing millions through season tickets, club deck bonds and the seat placement guarantee. During this period, Celtic fans had the option to invest in their club, primarily through season tickets, something which they did not do. It was only when McCann came along and provided an opportunity for the first time in Celtics history, to invest in shares and riding along on the back of the euphoria of regime change many participated. No surprise there.

 

With regard to the 7 million Rangers share issue flop, is it any wonder? We had seen one of the worst cases of financial mishandling in British football history by our chairman, which resulted in huge debts of 75 million ( that was after a property revaluation). Joe Lewis and Dave Kings 60 million investment was heading south and at the same time Murray personal wealth was soaring northwards (his wealth from 2000 to 2007 increased by half a billion) Are you really surprised that ordinary working class supporters did not dip into their pockets and buy shares to fill part of the hole that a multi millionaire(fastracking towards billionaire) chairman had dug????

 

Again I agree with the circumstances and I know even for myself I'd have bought shares had it not been merely a month till Christmas.

 

However, I still think you cannot slag off DM for not spending MORE than 51M of his money on Rangers, when the fans themselves are not willing to dig deep.

 

There is much irony also in this when you consider the fans want more say in the running of the club. Buying a substantial proportion of shares would have helped expedite this.

 

If 45,000 fans who spend �£500 on a season ticket, just spent �£100 more each on shares. That would be 4.5M more shares in the fans ownership. If another 45,000 without season tickets did the same thing then that would be another 4.5M.

 

If 150K Rangers fans who spent at least �£200 each in going to Manchester, to watch the game on a screee, instead invested the money in Rangers shares while watching the game at home, that would be 30M of equity.

 

We have the money but we're going for short term enjoyment rather than pragmatic long term thinking.

 

Regarding the last Celtic share issue of 15million. The split was 8 million from Dermot Desmond and 3.8 million was contributed from millionaire Celtic fans with another 3 million from ordinary fans. As regarding the hype that it was oversubscribed, it was heading for a substantial shortfall, hence the millionaires input after some arm twisting .

 

That's information I didn't know, however it does seem to the layman that Celtic's finances are a good bit better than Rangers even though they were close to bankruptcy so recently.

 

One area where Celtic are light years ahead and that is their public image, their spin if you like(a bit like new labour under Alistair Campbell). People are ready to believe what they and their apologists in the press put out-in fact its so good some people believe Rangers are the only club with a so called sectarian singing problem��....

 

I agree with that, but like I say, it is their fans who also help with this and ours could do with being a bit more clever about the whole thing. We could trounce Celtic's public image by merely abandoning the weird compulsion to shout, that F phrase and other contentious songs and chants that are sung for sheer bloody mindedness rather than any heart felt beliefs.

 

If we cleaned up our act, we'd at a stroke show them for what they are.

[maineflyer 0]

If we cleaned up our act, we'd at a stroke show them for what they are.

Wrong. No one will ever hear or read about what celtic supporters say or do. There is a very effective filter in the Scottish media that screens these things out and proactively cultivates an impression of Rangers-bad-Celtic-good. What good is done by Rangers will be ignored, while shameful goings on at Parkhead will be ignored. Celtic in turn cultivate their influence in the media while Murray boasts of how much he spends on a PR outfit hat does nothing but protect his personal image (�£700K wasn't it?).

[bmck 117]

so, you're arguing that there isn't a single good thing murray's done?

 

still too hard to take seriously. i can hardly wait till murray moves on, because we need a new injection of life, but i'm always suspicious of people who can see only bad in everything. i'm very, very sure you were loving the substantial part of 9iarow that was under murray's tenure, just like the rest of us. i bet you were at the 9inarow party like the rest of us.

 

nah, i can hardly wait till murray goes, but scapegoating's never really worked out that well, so you can go on all you like - scapegoating, and inconsistent scapegoating, is not something i can support. people who think every problem can be attributed to one person tend to be wrong.