Cuellar - Alan Smith swap deal

[pete 2,499]

Smith has never been the same player since his bad injury, although he was playing regularly in a very poor Newcastle team albeit out of position IMO.

 

Would I take Smith? Yes for sure!

Would I take Smith in a swap deal for Cuellar - no chance!

 

You have been watching only an excuse too much with your Souness imitation.

[craig 5,199]

I think since we sold Hutton, we don't need the money. The thing is 9m was more attractive than keeping Hutton, whereas keeping Cuellar is more attractive than receiving 10M. He's a more important player and one we should try to keep for the long term - if we can.

 

I would turn down 15M for him as I think he's that important.

 

I agree about Cuellar but disagree about Hutton. I think Hutton was every bit as important to us than Cuellar is.

 

I guess it is all about opinions but Hutton offered us a great deal both defensively and offensively. Cuellar is pivotal to us but I also felt Hutton was.

 

Now, if we are looking in terms of evening up the financial aspect of the club then sure the 9 mill for Hutton was needed.

 

I personally think from a playing perspective that Hutton was as pivotal as Cuellar is.

[calscot 0]

I think the thing with Hutton is that we all seemed to think his value rocketed 5M after one good year - the 9M for what we thought was a 5M player was just too good to turn down.

 

Now Cuellar looks like a 10M player from the start. To put him in the same scenario would mean that 18M would be too much to turn down.

 

Part of the aspect too was the suspicion that Hutton might be just having a purple patch which could end before the summer knocking his value down again - whereas Cuellar looks a lot more consistent and a safer bet.

 

There is also the timing. At the Hutton offer we'd spent 10.5M on players which in reality we couldn't afford and it was going to affect our future transfer budget for a few years.

 

Hutton's sale, pretty much wiped out the deficit and since then we've made a fair bit from Europe. That puts us in a much better position where we can turn down good money for players and build a team.

 

We now have a good budget again in the summer for adding the final pieces of the jigsaw plus the usual staff turnover.

 

I think that Hutton will be easier to replace than Cuellar - and Whittaker was already considered the heir apparent. I think we can find or develop another decent right back, whereas we can't afford to replace Cuellar with anyone that come close to his ability.

 

He's the best we've had for a long time, and better than players such as Amorusso.

 

The spine of the team is always more pivotal than the extremities.

[craig 5,199]

I think the thing with Hutton is that we all seemed to think his value rocketed 5M after one good year - the 9M for what we thought was a 5M player was just too good to turn down.

 

Now Cuellar looks like a 10M player from the start. To put him in the same scenario would mean that 18M would be too much to turn down.

 

Hutton's value did rocket after one good year, but that doesn't make him a flash in the pan, he looked good prior to his leg break anyway and, for me at least, merely realised his potential. Therefore, in my opinion, Hutton is most definitely a 9M player and not a 5M player who was sold for 9M.

 

Regarding Cuellar I am not sure that you can use whatever statistic you feel like throwing out there for a value on a player. Cuellar has looked like a great player, do I think that he has looked like a 10M player ? Yes I do. Does it therefore stand to reason that by playine one more season he will assume an increased fee in the same proportion as Hutton ? Not in my opinion it doesn't. I see what you are trying to suggest but it isn't a great argument in my opinion. Don't forget that premium is often attached to international players too, Hutton is and Cuellar isn't. I am not saying that Cuellar isn't a pivotal player for us, he is - all I am saying is that the financial logic you used is flawed (at least it is for me).

 

Part of the aspect too was the suspicion that Hutton might be just having a purple patch which could end before the summer knocking his value down again - whereas Cuellar looks a lot more consistent and a safer bet.

 

Not sure I agree with this either. We can only really judge both players on what they have done, right ? In which case, in my opinion, Hutton had been consistently outstanding for us for 18 months (since WS returned) whilst Cuellar has been outstanding for us for 9 months since his arrival. I didn't see much of Cuellar for Osasuna but fif you did and he was very consistent over a period of time then sure, add that time on. Likely though is that you will find they BOTH have been very consistent over similar periods of time. Again, I disagree that Cuellar is "a lot more consistent and a safer bet"

 

There is also the timing. At the Hutton offer we'd spent 10.5M on players which in reality we couldn't afford and it was going to affect our future transfer budget for a few years.

 

Absolutely agree with this. And I strongly believe that if it was Cuellar we were being offered 9M for having spent just 2.4M on him that it would have been him shown the door. The first large offer for any of our players that came calling would have been accepted, in my opinion.

 

Hutton's sale, pretty much wiped out the deficit and since then we've made a fair bit from Europe. That puts us in a much better position where we can turn down good money for players and build a team.

 

We now have a good budget again in the summer for adding the final pieces of the jigsaw plus the usual staff turnover.

 

I couldn't agree more. My point of debate is not about the financial aspect of the Hutton deal because I agree with you, the sale of Hutton was more about balancing the financial books and made financial sense - where I disagree is on whether Hutton wasn't as pivotal as Cuellar is.

 

I think that Hutton will be easier to replace than Cuellar - and Whittaker was already considered the heir apparent. I think we can find or develop another decent right back, whereas we can't afford to replace Cuellar with anyone that come close to his ability.

 

He's the best we've had for a long time, and better than players such as Amorusso.

 

I don't disagree that Cuellar is the best CB we have had for some time, and better than the likes of Amoruso - not sure I agree that he will be more difficult to replace than Hutton though, surely that depends on the players coming through the ranks and the position they play ? I don't think playing RB is any less of a task than playing CB. I don't think you can just assume that Hutton will be easier to replace and I think that your use as Whittaker as back-up to that proves the point. Whittaker MIGHT end up an able replacement but he has yet to show it, which suggests that it might not be that easy to replace him.

 

One thing for sure though is that I hope we don't ever have to talk about replacing Cuellar. He is pivotal for all the good we want to do. Were it not for the financial aspect of the Hutton deal I am pretty certain we would all be saying the same thing about Hutton.

 

Hutton was like two players in one. His engine to get up and down the right flank for 90 minutes made him a RB AND a RM. He forced opposition midfielders to play deeper and he made it difficult for opposing defenders to assist their attack.

 

The spine of the team is always more pivotal than the extremities.

 

I agree with this. But when you have an exceptional talent then exceptions are made. Maybe I am biased but I believe that Alan Hutton has turned himself into an exceptional talent - he had proven himself to be as pivotal as any of our players. For the first half of the season he was one of our most influential ATTACKING players, which says a lot for a defender.

 

If I were manager of any team I would make the spine the strongest element first, ala Souness, no doubt. But that doesn't mean other players can't be as pivotal, which Hutton was, in my opinion.

[ian1964 10,720]

The thing that was eating away at me regarding Hutton,was the fact that I for one thought that would seriously damage our title push,I wanted him to stay untill the summer to help us regain the title,however as it stands we are in a very strong position to win the league without his services for the second half of the season,so WHEN we win the SPL it turns out to be a good bit of business,although I wish we could've kept him for good.

[pete 2,499]

Hutton's value did rocket after one good year, but that doesn't make him a flash in the pan, he looked good prior to his leg break anyway and, for me at least, merely realised his potential. Therefore, in my opinion, Hutton is most definitely a 9M player and not a 5M player who was sold for 9M.

 

Regarding Cuellar I am not sure that you can use whatever statistic you feel like throwing out there for a value on a player. Cuellar has looked like a great player, do I think that he has looked like a 10M player ? Yes I do. Does it therefore stand to reason that by playine one more season he will assume an increased fee in the same proportion as Hutton ? Not in my opinion it doesn't. I see what you are trying to suggest but it isn't a great argument in my opinion. Don't forget that premium is often attached to international players too, Hutton is and Cuellar isn't. I am not saying that Cuellar isn't a pivotal player for us, he is - all I am saying is that the financial logic you used is flawed (at least it is for me).

 

 

 

Not sure I agree with this either. We can only really judge both players on what they have done, right ? In which case, in my opinion, Hutton had been consistently outstanding for us for 18 months (since WS returned) whilst Cuellar has been outstanding for us for 9 months since his arrival. I didn't see much of Cuellar for Osasuna but fif you did and he was very consistent over a period of time then sure, add that time on. Likely though is that you will find they BOTH have been very consistent over similar periods of time. Again, I disagree that Cuellar is "a lot more consistent and a safer bet"

 

 

 

Absolutely agree with this. And I strongly believe that if it was Cuellar we were being offered 9M for having spent just 2.4M on him that it would have been him shown the door. The first large offer for any of our players that came calling would have been accepted, in my opinion.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more. My point of debate is not about the financial aspect of the Hutton deal because I agree with you, the sale of Hutton was more about balancing the financial books and made financial sense - where I disagree is on whether Hutton wasn't as pivotal as Cuellar is.

 

 

 

I don't disagree that Cuellar is the best CB we have had for some time, and better than the likes of Amoruso - not sure I agree that he will be more difficult to replace than Hutton though, surely that depends on the players coming through the ranks and the position they play ? I don't think playing RB is any less of a task than playing CB. I don't think you can just assume that Hutton will be easier to replace and I think that your use as Whittaker as back-up to that proves the point. Whittaker MIGHT end up an able replacement but he has yet to show it, which suggests that it might not be that easy to replace him.

 

One thing for sure though is that I hope we don't ever have to talk about replacing Cuellar. He is pivotal for all the good we want to do. Were it not for the financial aspect of the Hutton deal I am pretty certain we would all be saying the same thing about Hutton.

 

Hutton was like two players in one. His engine to get up and down the right flank for 90 minutes made him a RB AND a RM. He forced opposition midfielders to play deeper and he made it difficult for opposing defenders to assist their attack.

 

 

 

I agree with this. But when you have an exceptional talent then exceptions are made. Maybe I am biased but I believe that Alan Hutton has turned himself into an exceptional talent - he had proven himself to be as pivotal as any of our players. For the first half of the season he was one of our most influential ATTACKING players, which says a lot for a defender.

 

If I were manager of any team I would make the spine the strongest element first, ala Souness, no doubt. But that doesn't mean other players can't be as pivotal, which Hutton was, in my opinion.

 

Can one of the Mods delete this before Calscot comes back on. We will be here all day tomorrow reading his reply.

 

Just Kidding Craig.:devil:

[Wija 0]

The thing that was eating away at me regarding Hutton,was the fact that I for one thought that would seriously damage our title push,I wanted him to stay untill the summer to help us regain the title,however as it stands we are in a very strong position to win the league without his services for the second half of the season,so WHEN we win the SPL it turns out to be a good bit of business,although I wish we could've kept him for good.

 

I feel it has, I certainly don't think the Dhims would have got 6 points from us, and I feel the defence would have been much stronger, rather than put Broadfoot in at a position he is a rookie at.

 

I still believe we will win the title, but it would have been a little less stressful with Hutton still in defence.

[pete 2,499]

I feel it has, I certainly don't think the Dhims would have got 6 points from us, and I feel the defence would have been much stronger, rather than put Broadfoot in at a position he is a rookie at.

 

I still believe we will win the title, but it would have been a little less stressful with Hutton still in defence.

 

I will go for that. Hutton could handle McGeady and be an attacking force as well. It took Broadfoot and Novo to double up on him to stop him.

[Wija 0]

I will go for that. Hutton could handle McGeady and be an attacking force as well. It took Broadfoot and Novo to double up on him to stop him.

 

Wait a fookin minute here Pete, are you agreeing with me.... I am off for a lay doon!

[pete 2,499]

Wait a fookin minute here Pete, are you agreeing with me.... I am off for a lay doon!

 

I have been agreeing with everyone today. i am seeing my doctor tomorrow for stronger medication.