Match Thread [FT] Rangers 0 - 1 Queen's Park

[Scott7 6,451]

59 minutes ago, FDMA said:

Would SG come back?

Would (I) want him??

No.

No.

[compo 7,602]

One way of looking at our place in football now is this  tonight the other mob play the germans 40 plus million will be going to the east end and if they beat the Germans it might be 54 million we cant compete against that and we are never going to catch up with them either so unless some rich halfwit with more money than sense this is the way it's going to remain regardless of who's manager who we have playing or who's running the club if anyone can tell me how we can compete with them let's hear it .

[Devil's advocaat 1,727]

10 minutes ago, compo said:

so unless some rich halfwit with more money than sense

And with FFP (or whatever they call it now) even if someone was daft enough, it can't really happen, unless you start doing all the creative accounting that the likes of Chelski do.

[CammyF 8,998]

37 minutes ago, compo said:

One way of looking at our place in football now is this  tonight the other mob play the germans 40 plus million will be going to the east end and if they beat the Germans it might be 54 million we cant compete against that and we are never going to catch up with them either so unless some rich halfwit with more money than sense this is the way it's going to remain regardless of who's manager who we have playing or who's running the club if anyone can tell me how we can compete with them let's hear it .

That's up to the board and investors to find.

 

Nothing much us mere fans can do. Other than empty our bank accounts on season tickets, RTV, MyGers, merchandise, hospitality etc. Then sit back, shut up and accept the mediocrity both on and off the pitch.

Edited February 12 by CammyF

[JohnMc 3,020]

On the criticism the board are currently getting. How many of us thought Clement was a poor appointment when he was announced? How many of us thought Beale was a poor appointment when he was announced? What about Gio? 

 

I was quite pleased when GvB was announced as Gerrard's successor. As disappointed as I was when Gerrard left I thought the club had found an able replacement. He'd a connection to the club, had won a title in Holland and started pretty well when he first joined. The games the led to Seville will last a long, long time in the memory. I wasn't pushing for his sacking when it came, but most were, results were poor and performances too. It wasn't a surprise when it happened. 

 

Beale looked like the ready made replacement. He knew the club, had been part of Gerrard's success, was rumoured to be the brains behind it all and was keen to rejoin us. Again, at first he seemed an inspired appointment. The side started playing attractive football, January signings, Cantwell and Raskin, looked like big improvements to the squad and we went into the close season with genuine hope. For me it was apparent something was very wrong quite early on in the new season, I remember leaving the Olympiacos pre-season game very concerned about our set-up, style and new signings. His sacking, when it came, was a relief, for whatever reason the early promise had disappeared and change was needed. 

 

Clement was an unknown to me. No previous connection to the club or indeed Scottish football but with a decent track record in management including titles in Belgium. Once again his initial impact was good, for a while it looked like we might even win the league, something that looked impossible when he joined. Ultimately we didn't, falling to almost inexplicable defeats at Ross County and Dundee. We lost the Cup Final too, harsh refereeing going against us. The summer saw an exit of some familiar names, most of who the support felt had run their course, replaced by players largely unknown to us. This season has been not unlike Gio's, struggling against sides we should beat with a lack of energy or drive around the side. We have had some great performances and good results in Europe and finally beat Celtic, quite comprehensively. But it's a results business and Clement leaving would not come as a shock to anyone now. 

 

Each of those managers was backed, to an extent. But I'd argue through this time the club has 'downsized'. The loss to Malmo under Gerrard and our failure to qualify for the Champion's League that season was possibly the catalyst for a lot of what has happened since. 

 

Off the field the executive offices have been a revolving door, with a number of senior and important positions becoming vacant. I don't know Patrick Stewart, I've no inside info on him, but as a fan his appointment doesn't look like a ridiculous one. He has football experience, he understands how a big football club is run and the little we've heard from him he's not said anything worrying. Whether he'll be any good at it only time will tell. 

 

The work overrun on the Copland Stand in the summer was a poor look and an expensive one too. Clearly a project that was badly handled. On the plus side this board finally, after many, many false promises, addressed the challenges facing our wheelchair supporters. There should be criticism but also some credit too. There have been other works carried out on the old stadium too, often work that is essential but not visible to the average supporter. Work that should have been done long before it was. 

 

No board is above criticism and this one certainly isn't. Mistakes have been made and more will be made, that's the nature of these things. But on balance are they doing a bad job? I mean it's a low bar but they're undoubtedly the best board we've had this century. 

 

 

Edited February 12 by JohnMc

[CammyF 8,998]

2 hours ago, JohnMc said:

On the criticism the board are currently getting. How many of us thought Clement was a poor appointment when he was announced? How many of us thought Beale was a poor appointment when he was announced? What about Gio? 

 

I was quite pleased when GvB was announced as Gerrard's successor. As disappointed as I was when Gerrard left I thought the club had found an able replacement. He'd a connection to the club, had won a title in Holland and started pretty well when he first joined. The games the led to Seville will last a long, long time in the memory. I wasn't pushing for his sacking when it came, but most were, results were poor and performances too. It wasn't a surprise when it happened. 

 

Beale looked like the ready made replacement. He knew the club, had been part of Gerrard's success, was rumoured to be the brains behind it all and was keen to rejoin us. Again, at first he seemed an inspired appointment. The side started playing attractive football, January signings, Cantwell and Raskin, looked like big improvements to the squad and we went into the close season with genuine hope. For me it was apparent something was very wrong quite early on in the new season, I remember leaving the Olympiacos pre-season game very concerned about our set-up, style and new signings. His sacking, when it came, was a relief, for whatever reason the early promise had disappeared and change was needed. 

 

Clement was an unknown to me. No previous connection to the club or indeed Scottish football but with a decent track record in management including titles in Belgium. Once again his initial impact was good, for a while it looked like we might even win the league, something that looked impossible when he joined. Ultimately we didn't, falling to almost inexplicable defeats at Ross County and Dundee. We lost the Cup Final too, harsh refereeing going against us. The summer saw an exit of some familiar names, most of who the support felt had run their course, replaced by players largely unknown to us. This season has been not unlike Gio's, struggling against sides we should beat with a lack of energy or drive around the side. We have had some great performances and good results in Europe and finally beat Celtic, quite comprehensively. But it's a results business and Clement leaving would not come as a shock to anyone now. 

 

Each of those managers was backed, to an extent. But I'd argue through this time the club has 'downsized'. The loss to Malmo under Gerrard and our failure to qualify for the Champion's League that season was possibly the catalyst for a lot of what has happened since. 

 

Off the field the executive offices have been a revolving door, with a number of senior and important positions becoming vacant. I don't know Patrick Stewart, I've no inside info on him, but as a fan his appointment doesn't look like a ridiculous one. He has football experience, he understands how a big football club is run and the little we've heard from him he's not said anything worrying. Whether he'll be any good at it only time will tell. 

 

The work overrun on the Copland Stand in the summer was a poor look and an expensive one too. Clearly a project that was badly handled. On the plus side this board finally, after many, many false promises, addressed the challenges facing our wheelchair supporters. There should be criticism but also some credit too. There have been other works carried out on the old stadium too, often work that is essential but not visible to the average supporter. Work that should have been done long before it was. 

 

No board is above criticism and this one certainly isn't. Mistakes have been made and more will be made, that's the nature of these things. But on balance are they doing a bad job? I mean it's a low bar but they're undoubtedly the best board we've had this century. 

 

 

Managers :

I believe any discussion on recent managers (which also crosses over to the board, more of that later), has to start with a champagne soaked SG being interviewed when we were presented with the SPL trophy. Sitting with Emma Dodds, a delighted SG told us all that we'd "fix the roof when the sun was shining" and had assurances from the board that he'd be able to replace / address the areas he thought required strengthening. That didn't happen.

 

What SG had done was install the standards. He had found a way to beat Celtic and finally, found a way to defeat the rest. All whilst reestablishing our reputation in Europe. When he took over, we were an utter shambles yet he got us challenging at home and abroad. 

 

Yes we could have and should have won more trophies, but he won the one that really, really mattered. 

 

We then fell short against Malmo and SG was already hinting at not being backed as he was promised he would be.

 

When he left, we were top of the league and had beaten Celtic (again) 1-0 at Ibrox with a covid-ravaged squad. 

 

I think most of us welcomed GVB - an ex-player who had had success as a manager. Somehow he managed to lose the lead in the SPL and the thrashings at the hands of Celtic we all thought were behind us suddenly returned.  However, the run to EL Final was amazing and we defeated high standard teams and should have won the final.

 

In retrospect, it could be argued that we sacked GvB prematurely. The appointment of Beale was a lazy appointment by the board (and I said so at the time). It lacked imagination and after a good start, we went into free fall and the inevitable happened. 

 

When Clement was appointed, I could see why the board chose him, but there were questions around the appointment. Fans from previous teams he'd managed spoke of a coach who struggled to break blocks and to change games. We also heard that the footballing people/ person the board asked for advice, didn't chose Clement as their 1st choice. 

 

Clements era stared brilliantly and we managed to find ourselves ahead in the race for the title. Then we lost to Motherwell at home (he changed the way our full backs played around that time), then we regressed and the rest is history. The capitulation was horrific and the signs we couldn't beat teams who played a certain way, or changed the way they played. Clement couldn't react with changes of his own.

 

This preseason had alarm bells ringing (just like Beales) but most chose to ignore them. 1st game of the season we drew with Hearts at Tynecastle and that performance set the tone for domestic away games. 

 

We lost the CL qualifier and most blamed the wrongly dismissal of Jefte, but if we're honest with ourselves, we never looked like winning. 

 

Going into the season playing at Hampden and only having 1 fit forward didn't help. Neither did the managers reluctance to start his new signings. 

 

Our away form went from bad to worse and even after beating Celtic 3-0, we still found ourselves 13 points behind. We were unlucky not to win the LC, did well to get to last 8 of EL, then Sunday happened. 

 

There are far more "negatives" to Clements tenure than there are positives and previous managers have been sacked for less. 

 

If I remember correctly we've not beaten Celtic at Parkhead since Goldson scored 2 goals during 55. 

 

The defence's I hear for keeping Clement are; we can't afford to sack him and / or; we can't sack managers every year. It appears standards, quality and results have been replaced by acceptance of mediocrity.

 

The Board

I don't think there is a Rangers fan who didn't welcome the new area for our wheelchair supporters and this was long overdue. 

 

However, the previous major project, NEH, ran over timescale and budget, is to small, and it appears no lessons were learned from that project. It remains an under-utilised venue and cost over £11M. Money that was required in other areas. 

 

Whilst the financial repercussions of the Copland not being ready hurt, the fact that the board chose to deny there were any issues and lied to supporters right made a dire situation even worse. Not to mind we said, there will be contingencies in place right? Eh, no..........

 

One positive you didn't mention is the merchandise agreement with Castore. Bisgrove got us a great deal there and despite teething issues, we now have a deal that gives us substantial investment. However, it would be remiss not to mention the botched merchandise deals that we were still paying for until recently. 

 

Bisgrove was then promoted to a role he was unsuited for (another lazy appointment), promptly left and was (wrongly) thrown under the bus by the board for the Copland debacle. Well, they had to blame someone, the big boy that did it and ran away as they say.

 

A critique of the board wouldn't  be complete without a mention of the sale of part of The Albion. A horrendously short-term decision that went largely under the radar. 

 

It's also worth reiterating that the level of debt we currently face is solely down to this boards mistakes. They can't blame anyone, for this there is no big boy who done it and ran away. 

 

Its ALL on them - if taking us to the brink, to a place where we can't operate, where we can't sack a clearly struggling and out of touch manager, makes them the best board we've had this century, then they certainly are. 

 

 

Edited February 12 by CammyF

[Gribz 1,103]

8 hours ago, Rousseau said:

STOP SAYING IT!

 

It was tongue in cheek TBH 😎

[Gribz 1,103]

Gerrard's stock has fallen two fold because of where he left Villa in the league with Unai Emery picking up with the same squad and reaching the European places. But secondly to fail in Saudi where the term open cheque book goes to a new level. 

 

Gerrard needs Rangers more than Rangers need Gerrard at this point in time. 

 

There has been a pattern with the current manager and the previous two that all have started well but its fizzled out big time - although I think Gio just went on a bad run and could have turned it around. Like Clement I think Gio may have been just a bit "too nice" at times whilst Beale was just arrogant. 

 

This conversation may develop hugely if we have a negative result at Tynecastle this weekend. 

[CammyF 8,998]

4 hours ago, Gribz said:

 

 

This conversation may develop hugely if we have a negative result at Tynecastle this weekend. 

Unfortunately,  I don't think it will. If losing at home to Queens wasn't enough to convince the board to sack him, then he'll survive a draw / defeat at Tynecastle.

 

He will get the EL game and probably to the end of the season. In my opinion, the board will give him next season as well (probably sacked in Oct / Nov) which is a truly depressing thought. 

[JohnMc 3,020]

Other than making Cammy happy sacking Clement now achieves vey little. Most of his backroom team will leave with him, so we're into caretaker territory for a few weeks or months. Who would that be, Alex Rae? Neil McCann? McCoist? Certainly I think we can kiss goodbye to going any further in Europe. I think the board have already made up their mind and Clement won't be in charge for next season. They'll take the next few weeks to sound out a successor, as that person may already be in a job events will either change quite rapidly or we'll limp on until the inevitable announcement in May. 

I think Clement is a dead man walking and he probably already knows it.