Clement: Stick or Twist?

[RANGERRAB 3,884]

I don’t think now is the time to dispense with PC although I think there may well be a review of his position at the end of the season.

Reading through this forum and others what concerns me most is the amount of Rangers supporters who advocate sacking PC without offering a name as his successor. 
As I said in another post, I think Clement is the symptom not the cause of what is wrong at Rangers

[buster. 5,390]

31 minutes ago, compo said:

I don't think the manager has any respect from the fans I can see crowds dropping away and the boo boys giving him hell when we mess up i  think he's in for a torrid time from now until he goes that's the way things go the fans are paying good money and in my book they are well entitled to give him and his team the boos might even see a banner asking him to go were not known for our patience at Ibrox 

On one side you have a significant percentage of the fanbase who don't seem to comprehend how important it is to sort our finances (Even taking into consideration an immediate drop off in match day revenue).

However, ST renewals will have to be taken into account.

 

On the other side, Clement isn't very good at press conferences. Has tried to tell the fanbase how it is but they aren't interested and now desperately wants the CEO to go public with the back story/context.

 

Is it me or has Clement's English language skills got worse over his time at Ibrox?

 

With or without Clement the road is long and arduous. 

 

- how much would it cost to bin the manager (and staff)?

- what level of new manager could we attract given circumstances ? Cost?

- what demands would new manager have so to have chance of competing?

 

 - WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM?

 

- how long would new manager get ?

 

 

Edited Friday at 16:56 by buster.

[buster. 5,390]

3 hours ago, stewarty said:

I swing between both answers.  

 

On the one hand we can't keep changing managers and expecting to develop consistency. 

 

On the other hand, results aren't good enough and fan sentiment seems to have got to the point of no return.

We are very consistent but not in a good way.

[compo 7,384]

14 minutes ago, buster. said:

On one side you have a significant percentage of the fanbase who don't seem to comprehend how important it is to sort our finances (Even taking into consideration an immediate drop off in match day revenue).

However, ST renewals will have to be taken into account.

 

On the other side, Clement isn't very good at press conferences. Has tried to tell the fanbase how it is but they aren't interested and now desperately wants the CEO to go public with the back story/context.

 

Is it me or has Clement's English language skills got worse over his time at Ibrox?

 

With or without Clement the road is long and arduous. 

 

- how much would it cost to bin the manager (and staff)?

- what level of new manager could we attract given circumstances ? Cost?

- what demands would new manager have so to have chance of competing?

 

 - WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM?

 

- how long would new manager get ?

 

 

The fans only want a team that plays good football and wins they aren't interested in the manager or the board I don't think no matter how much money you gave him he could do those two things but he's the boards choice 

[Scott7 6,277]

45 minutes ago, buster. said:

Is it me or has Clement's English language skills got worse over his time at Ibrox?

The English of everybody living in Glasgow gets worse over time.

[CammyF 8,677]

As @Rousseau said, this isn't about rinse and repeat, it's about a manager / coach who'll get better out of the players at their disposal.

 

Is Clement getting the best out of them? The answer is a resounding no. Has he had sufficient time to get better out them, in my opinion, the answer is yes. We are regressing rather than improving.

 

The biggest single source of income is from the fans (outwith player trading if we every get that right - season tickets, merchandise, match day experience, hospitality etc), and the only tool the fans have to show their displeasure or force change is to withhold their hard earned cash. If the board want to gamble that the fans will continue to blindly show loyalty, then good luck to them. 

 

As @compo says, the majority of fans just want a winning team on the pitch. End of story. No matter who publically tells them thats not posssible, rightly or wrongly, they don't care. 

 

Sunday will be interesting - the official attendance will be +40K, but bums on seats will be a lot less than that. Results continue to worsen so will attendances which will have an impact on income.

 

Come ST renewals, depending on what transpires between now and March / April time, it could turn out to be catastrophic for the board. They'll just have to rely on the 10000 ST waiting list. 

Edited Friday at 17:52 by CammyF

[JohnMc 2,861]

2 hours ago, Rousseau said:

I don't think sacking PC means 'starting again'. That's the purpose of having a DoF or Director of Recruitment; they take on the burden of recruitment and the player trading model. 

 

We're looking for a coach that can work with what we have, not a manager to come in and rip apart everything. 

The players we have aren't good enough, is that up for debate? They can beat any Scottish side on their day, but they lack consistency and experience, on top of that the squad isn't deep enough. Whoever we bring in, and we need to be realistic about who that will be as our budget will be decreased further by paying off Clement and his backroom team, but whoever that is might get a bounce, might change our tactics a bit, make us harder to score against, but they're not taking this squad and going on a 20 match winning streak.

 

When Paul Le Guen was sacked and Walter returned he signed Andy Webster, Davie Weir, Ugo Ehiogu and Kevin Thomson in the January window. The equivalent isn't happening in this window unless someone gives us £15 million for Igamane. We went 11 games unbeaten after Walter was reappointed, won the Scottish Cup, but we didn't win the league the following season either, despite us signing an almost entirely new side. We're not able to attract anyone of the calibre of Walter Smith currently. 

 

So while I understand the concept of a coach/DoF relationship, in reality a new manager will want some new players, I mean I imagine our current manager wants some new players. 

[Rousseau 11,012]

15 hours ago, JohnMc said:

The players we have aren't good enough, is that up for debate? They can beat any Scottish side on their day, but they lack consistency and experience, on top of that the squad isn't deep enough. Whoever we bring in, and we need to be realistic about who that will be as our budget will be decreased further by paying off Clement and his backroom team, but whoever that is might get a bounce, might change our tactics a bit, make us harder to score against, but they're not taking this squad and going on a 20 match winning streak.

 

When Paul Le Guen was sacked and Walter returned he signed Andy Webster, Davie Weir, Ugo Ehiogu and Kevin Thomson in the January window. The equivalent isn't happening in this window unless someone gives us £15 million for Igamane. We went 11 games unbeaten after Walter was reappointed, won the Scottish Cup, but we didn't win the league the following season either, despite us signing an almost entirely new side. We're not able to attract anyone of the calibre of Walter Smith currently. 

 

So while I understand the concept of a coach/DoF relationship, in reality a new manager will want some new players, I mean I imagine our current manager wants some new players. 

The squad isn't good enough, no, but I think there are some good assets there. We're in the beginning of a rebuild so it's not finished. People keep talking about a rebuild as if what we did in the summer is the extent of it. We will be adding to the squad and removing the unwanted players during future windows. 

 

I'm not saying managers should have no say; they need to be working with the recruitment department.

 

The Walter model is dated - it was dated during his second spell. (It wasn't a great Celtic team he had to beat, iirc.)

 

I was reading about Liverpool's data analytics team again recently. When Rodgers was the manager, the recruitment team wanted to sign Firmino, Rodgers wanted Benteke (they suggested Lukaku instead but Rodgers wanted Benteke... ). They bought both as a compromise but Rodgers wouldn't use Firmino as the analysis suggested - Rodgers had him out wide. Rodgers was eventually sacked.

 

They concluded that the manager was hampering the recruitment team, so they moved for a coach that would be on board with their model. Klopp was on board.

 

Liverpool's recruitment model was planned 15 years ago - and they were late to party.

 

The fact we're still having debates about this is staggering to me. It's probably symptomatic of the problems facing Scottish football as a whole. We've been left behind. 

 

I was hopeful we were moving forward when we appointed a DoF, but we've just dabbled. They've not been given the remit they need to work properly. 

 

You're correct we don't have the money, but that's all the more reason to have a proper recruitment model. We can't afford to rebuild with every managerial appointment.

 

I understand your point was merely that a new manager will want new additions. Fair enough, yes, but they should be working with the recruitment department, not dictating who stays and who goes. An old-school manager is not for us. 

[compo 7,384]

Maybe he needs better help from those  around him like a couple of new first team coaches by getting   rid of Alex rae and Brian Gilmour and finding better we seem to have rwo assistant managers a manager only needs one assistant they could do with looking at the scouting system they dont seem to bring in much talent 

 

[locked ward 105]

When we beat Ross County 3-0 away then Killie 6-0 at home we started with Igamane and Danilo up front and looked as if we had turned a corner as far as as playing against teams that sit in .

He changed to more a defensive shape against Spurs and the filth cup final  , no problem there as they both came at us.

He reverted to starting Igamane and Danillo against Dundee and got the win at home  and again never started Danilo for the filth demolition game.

It has all gone wrong in the last four away games with him starting  Igamane up front on his own .

Why would he do this given the results he had starting Igamane and Danilo together ?