Is it time for a fresh approach?

[DMAA 3,658]

1 minute ago, Gonzo79 said:

I definitely won't be attending.  Testimonials made sense when footballers were paid more normal salaries, not now.  

It's all going to charity anyway

[der Berliner 3,742]

15 hours ago, Rousseau said:

Formations are irrelevant. The game is fluid. 

 

We've played a 4 in build-up, we've played a 3 in build-up. We've played with a single 10, we've played with two 8s. We've played wingers wide, we've played them as inside forwards. Our fullbacks have overlapped and inverted. 

 

Even if you just mean against them, we've also tried different things. The 4-4-2 mid block in the SC final was probably the best. But, that's just in defence. 

 

We just don't have the quality to take our chances or cut out defensive mistakes. 

 

We can only let PC cook and give the players the time to get used to the automatisms. 

Not really ... if you pick the players that play for that system.

 

What we do right now is ... 4-2-3-1

 

- 2 centre-halfs ... who have to carry the bulk of any balls over the top by the opposition AS WELL AS much of the creative play from the back

The current folk there do their best, but are far from excellent and often have to cover for the advancing fullbacks, leaving gaps in the middle. If the opposition send less than 4 chap into attack, we often have problems.

 

- 2 "wingbacks" who are supposed to play the winger-role more often than not, but are leaving lots of empty spaces on either side if caught up field ... which happens quite often against the Parked Bus Union.

Tav got and gets his head out of the nose by delivering the odd perfect cross or corner per game which results into a goal, or scores a penalty or free-kick (as seemingly no-one else was/is allowed to take these). His defensive work can be excellent or shocking, usually some of both per game.

Ridvan and Jefte are clearly more attack-minded and capable than most fullbacks we had on that side, and not shy of a good shot. One has injury problems, the other needs a month or two more to settle into the delicacies of the Scottish game. 

 

- 2 defensive midfielders (which is one too many against most Scottish teams) who are supposed to fill spaces left by the wingbacks or centre-halfs doing the aforementioned job, to break up play, start the build up from the back and, if possible, run into spaces in the centre of attack, screening the penalty area etc.. IMHO, Barron, Diomande, and Sterling can all do this job, the best in those roles were Davis and Jack, the former for his build-up play, the latter for his defensive work. The three prime boys for the role can sure do it, these last few seasons showed, though, that  we need more people in the attacking third, not at the back or in the middle. We toiled and laboured in midfield, instead of putting pressure on the defensive walls.

MAYBE, given the power of Barron and Sterling, as well as the possibility of sending Diomande into a more forward role, this system will work better this season. But I stand by my point that we do not need to DMs most of the time.

 

-3 offensive midfielders / attackers / forwards looks nice on paper, but these people have to deliver if we play with but one natural striker. We try our luck with people who can play all slots of the front line, yet, only Sima showed any real promise. The rest is far too erratic or score-shy to make this system work. What we look forward too now is Cerny, Matondo, Cortes, and McCausland finding a rich vein of goalscoring form, as well as Bajrami, Lawrence, Dowell, as well as Hagi and Lowry chipping in with a few. Yet, when you look at these names, you wonder how three of those will be able to do this in every given game against 7 to 8 defenders?

 

-1 striker ... you see, Dessers is in many ways the new Morelos. The sole saviour up top who essentially has to score from every other chance against packed defences, or we stare at low-score or no-score games. The whole idea of 3 attacking midfielders and 1 striker is fine and modern in games where you play an opposition that plays open football. That is not the case in Scotland, and has not been the case for the best part of a decade.

I have no idea how the Scum lines up, but it doesn't matter, as they obviously have the quality needed in these positions to put any other Scottish team to the sword.

 

Every system needs both the players for it, as well as an opposition you can use it against. What we need, no matter the numbers on the system sheet, is another striker who can support our centre forward where we need it most. 

[Rousseau 10,600]

29 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

Not really ... if you pick the players that play for that system.

 

What we do right now is ... 4-2-3-1

 

- 2 centre-halfs ... who have to carry the bulk of any balls over the top by the opposition AS WELL AS much of the creative play from the back

The current folk there do their best, but are far from excellent and often have to cover for the advancing fullbacks, leaving gaps in the middle. If the opposition send less than 4 chap into attack, we often have problems.

 

- 2 "wingbacks" who are supposed to play the winger-role more often than not, but are leaving lots of empty spaces on either side if caught up field ... which happens quite often against the Parked Bus Union.

Tav got and gets his head out of the nose by delivering the odd perfect cross or corner per game which results into a goal, or scores a penalty or free-kick (as seemingly no-one else was/is allowed to take these). His defensive work can be excellent or shocking, usually some of both per game.

Ridvan and Jefte are clearly more attack-minded and capable than most fullbacks we had on that side, and not shy of a good shot. One has injury problems, the other needs a month or two more to settle into the delicacies of the Scottish game. 

 

- 2 defensive midfielders (which is one too many against most Scottish teams) who are supposed to fill spaces left by the wingbacks or centre-halfs doing the aforementioned job, to break up play, start the build up from the back and, if possible, run into spaces in the centre of attack, screening the penalty area etc.. IMHO, Barron, Diomande, and Sterling can all do this job, the best in those roles were Davis and Jack, the former for his build-up play, the latter for his defensive work. The three prime boys for the role can sure do it, these last few seasons showed, though, that  we need more people in the attacking third, not at the back or in the middle. We toiled and laboured in midfield, instead of putting pressure on the defensive walls.

MAYBE, given the power of Barron and Sterling, as well as the possibility of sending Diomande into a more forward role, this system will work better this season. But I stand by my point that we do not need to DMs most of the time.

 

-3 offensive midfielders / attackers / forwards looks nice on paper, but these people have to deliver if we play with but one natural striker. We try our luck with people who can play all slots of the front line, yet, only Sima showed any real promise. The rest is far too erratic or score-shy to make this system work. What we look forward too now is Cerny, Matondo, Cortes, and McCausland finding a rich vein of goalscoring form, as well as Bajrami, Lawrence, Dowell, as well as Hagi and Lowry chipping in with a few. Yet, when you look at these names, you wonder how three of those will be able to do this in every given game against 7 to 8 defenders?

 

-1 striker ... you see, Dessers is in many ways the new Morelos. The sole saviour up top who essentially has to score from every other chance against packed defences, or we stare at low-score or no-score games. The whole idea of 3 attacking midfielders and 1 striker is fine and modern in games where you play an opposition that plays open football. That is not the case in Scotland, and has not been the case for the best part of a decade.

I have no idea how the Scum lines up, but it doesn't matter, as they obviously have the quality needed in these positions to put any other Scottish team to the sword.

 

Every system needs both the players for it, as well as an opposition you can use it against. What we need, no matter the numbers on the system sheet, is another striker who can support our centre forward where we need it most. 

I don't know what your point is. 

[Gonzo79 15,292]

4 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I don't know what your point is. 

[ranger_syntax 4,314]

until we drop Tav we will play with three at the back

[der Berliner 3,742]

32 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I don't know what your point is. 

We do not have the players to play 4-2-3-1, no matter how fluid we try to be. And haven't had them for the best part of a decade.

[Rousseau 10,600]

41 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

We do not have the players to play 4-2-3-1, no matter how fluid we try to be. And haven't had them for the best part of a decade.

You're getting sucked into the idea that one formation equals one way of playing, which isn't true: at times we've defended in a 4-4-2 and attacked in a 3-2-5, despite it always being a 4-2-3-1 on paper - hence my original point: formations are mostly irrelevant. For me, they are only useful in reference to game state. 

 

I have always said we're lacking quality players. 

[yuddie 1,693]

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

You're getting sucked into the idea that one formation equals one way of playing, which isn't true: at times we've defended in a 4-4-2 and attacked in a 3-2-5, despite it always being a 4-2-3-1 on paper - hence my original point: formations are mostly irrelevant. For me, they are only useful in reference to game state. 

 

I have always said we're lacking quality players. 

He's bang on lads, sorry.

 

4-4-2 against the ball is the way this team should defend. It's not damage limitation but not getting beat over there is a small step to recovery.

 

If he wants to go man for man, do it...but do it and if your press fails get back into shape sharpish, we weren't doing that.

 

What I saw from Clement was sound in principle, you need fit, brave and intelligent players to do it and it looked like we lacked all of those things.

 

Game state played a huge part in our xG end up though. Clement can't cling to that, Liverpool smashed Utd by 3 and Ten Hag was wittering on about their chances and xG - Liverpool sat back after '60.

 

Maybe his ego was bruised after last season and he felt obliged to go man for man - containing them has more often than not worked for us except for the game at Hampden and Gio unleashing Bassey.

[Blue Moon 1,289]

I wish he would never use zonal marking.  Another thing we don't have the right players for.

[CammyF 8,078]

3 hours ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

When he was at his peak we made our peace with the fact his attacking output far outweigh his defensive frailties. 

 

Now he offers little attacking threat its time to go with Sterling / Big Kas / Leon King at right back in some games and see how we go. 

 

I think he has decided to stay to get his testimonial but I really worry that he will tarnish his legacy so badly that it will be a non-event.

 

Dessers and Danilo will score goals against the diddy teams but neither offer anything when we are punching up. We need a big bastard up front, go get a Wout Weghorst or Luuk de Jong type who can be a focal point of play.

Dessers has scored in "big games". He's scored in every competition we've played in, including Europe. 

 

We have no attacking options other than Dessers. Danilo is way off fitness after injury, Igamane is an unknown quantity, we couldn't get Sima back. Matondo and Cerny will chip in with a couple of goals, sure Cortes will as well.

 

Said earlier, Dessers is the only player we have who'll get over 20 goals. Tav would normally get as many but he has fallen away dramatically. Someone broke down Dessers goals last season and the vast majority were "important" goals that either won us points, rescued points or put us ahead in games. 

 

If we persist with 3 forwards, all 3 need to be hitting 15-20 goals a season. 

 

Our midfield don't score enough, neither do our defenders. Its getting to the stage where if Dessers doesn't score, neither do Rangers. 

Edited September 3 by CammyF