Yilmaz goes off injured playing for Turkey

[Bill 13,717]

11 minutes ago, Uilleam said:

Is the modern 'full back' more important as a defender or as an attacker? Opine. Or discuss, if you wish.

 

On balance I think he should definitely be one or the other. We've tried neither and it just doesn't work for me.

[CammyF 8,079]

33 minutes ago, Devil's advocaat said:

After big Cyriel's usual 'clean through from the halfway line' miss last night, I think you may be right 26th! 

 

 

Away and don't talk rubbish. You seem to see a few folk saying something online and then extrapolate it to our whole support!

I'm not talking rubbish- he was written off both on-line and at games. In fact some wanted Bassey and Patterson sacked for breaking covid rules. Good job we didn't sack them both. 

 

 

[Rousseau 10,602]

1 hour ago, CammyF said:

I'm not though. 

 

Bassey is a fantastic example of the development model we require. Worth noting, he was written off (what age was he) by the majority of Rangers fans, then stormed into the team, played brilliantly and sold for a huge profit. 

 

If Tav goes, a £6M fee is wonderful business. He has contributed immensely to our club, hardly missed a game and will make us a profit. 

 

Ridvan may develop into a great player, but he has hardly shown any glimpses of being continually outstanding (ala Bassey).

 

The initial outlay means we would need to sell for £5M to show any decent profit. Keeping him and playing him, in the hope he does improve sufficiently could trigger some of the add-ons, meaning we would need to sell him for £8-£10M.

 

He just doesn't look like a £8-£10M player (neither does Dessers) but nobody can argue that Dessers contribution in under 10 months is far better than Ridvans in what, 2 years?

 

In my opinion neither fit the trading model we are aspiring to and neither should be here long term. 

Bassey is a good example. Taverneir is still not a good example, even if he does make a profit. Good business, absolutely, but we need to be selling them earlier. 

 

Ridvan cost us £3.4m (add-ons take it to £5m).

 

Is that the criteria? "Continually outstanding"? Bassey was a bombscare at the start - and that was after a year of not starting a game - so he wouldn't count. Bassey needed time to develop.

 

(He was older than Ridvan when he was written off... 👀) 

 

(Dessers was never worth £5m. I said so at the time. Terrible business. That doesn't mean we can't get use out of him.)

 

Ridvan does fit the model. Your - or my - opinion of him is irrelevant in that regard. 

[Rousseau 10,602]

42 minutes ago, Uilleam said:

Is the modern 'full back' more important as a defender or as an attacker? Opine. Or discuss, if you wish.

 

(Note that a midfield general,  from Ajaccio FC, then in France's Second Division, observed that attack is the best form of defence. He went on to conquer Europe, thereafter, with what was styled Boneyball.)

 

 

I'd go full VL-statto-nerd and say both: one rampaging forward, the other inverting. 

[der Berliner 3,744]

I never liked international breaks. Not least as it whips up threads like this ...

[CammyF 8,079]

6 hours ago, Rousseau said:

Bassey is a good example. Taverneir is still not a good example, even if he does make a profit. Good business, absolutely, but we need to be selling them earlier. 

 

Ridvan cost us £3.4m (add-ons take it to £5m).

 

Is that the criteria? "Continually outstanding"? Bassey was a bombscare at the start - and that was after a year of not starting a game - so he wouldn't count. Bassey needed time to develop.

 

(He was older than Ridvan when he was written off... 👀) 

 

(Dessers was never worth £5m. I said so at the time. Terrible business. That doesn't mean we can't get use out of him.)

 

Ridvan does fit the model. Your - or my - opinion of him is irrelevant in that regard. 

I think we have different opinions on what a successful player trading model for our club looks like, and that's fine, different opinions are allowed 😉 

 

In my opinion, with our limited finances, we can't be spending £3.5-£5M on a player who we hope will eventually, over time, become a decent enough player to sell for a handsome profit. If we are spending that kind of money, it needs to be on players who will improve our starting 11 immediately.

 

The punts we need to take are on low cost, or free transfers (no matter their age, Butland would be a great example, signed on a free transfer and already receiving interest from EPL teams), develop them, then sell them on at a profit. Or, bring them through our youth development. 

 

Recent examples would be ; Bassey, Kamara, Aribo, Patterson. Circa £50M raised on 5 players. At what outlay? Couple hundred grand? 

 

We have had more failings than success in player trading but with the likes of Butland, Cantwell, Dio it looks like we are on track to improve. We'll never get them 100% correct, but the less the outlay, the less (finacial) impact.

 

I would also argue that European success, more so the domestic, will help elevate players profile and transfer value.

 

Its imperative that we do improve as it'll be the only way we'll get finance to buy players. 

 

 

[Sutton_blows_goats 5,329]

14 hours ago, CammyF said:

Recent examples would be ; Bassey, Kamara, Aribo, Patterson. Circa £50M raised on 5 players. At what outlay? Couple hundred grand?

Aribo cost over a million to sign on agent and sign on fees for the player. Stuart Robertson mentioned this during an interview.

 

The thing people forget with bosman deals is that without a transfer fee the players side are in a good position to negotiate so can ask for higher than normal wages and fees. 

 

Sakala is a great example of a player trading model, sign a player for a modest wage and sign on, get a good couple of years out of him then move him on for a few million. Not every good trade has to be a Bassey or Kamara.

[CammyF 8,079]

3 hours ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

Aribo cost over a million to sign on agent and sign on fees for the player. Stuart Robertson mentioned this during an interview.

 

The thing people forget with bosman deals is that without a transfer fee the players side are in a good position to negotiate so can ask for higher than normal wages and fees. 

 

Sakala is a great example of a player trading model, sign a player for a modest wage and sign on, get a good couple of years out of him then move him on for a few million. Not every good trade has to be a Bassey or Kamara.

Sakala would be an other good example, for sure. 

 

I just can't see how, currently, Ridvan would a good example of the player trading model we need.