Some thoughts 6 days on

[Blue Moon 1,289]

I am left bemused and perplexed by the entire handball shenanigans.  What on earth is a subjective handball?  I thought VAR was supposed to bring more clarity and less subjectivity to the game.  By my understanding of the rules, Johnstone's hand was not in a natural position and he moved his hand towards the ball and played it. These are two of the considerations that would bring about a penalty and a second yellow and red card.  I saw the incident on TV last night again and watched Johnstone.  His face tells a picture.  He knew he had messed up and was waiting to be sent off.  

 

So, the ref missed it but VAR saw it.  No problem we said, it is a clear handball but in 30 seconds Collum says no handball.  I don't believe Collum is a cheat but he is a coward and incompetent.  He did not use the opportunity to properly review the incident from various angles nor ask the ref to come to the monitor.  The SFA have made matters worse by calling it a subjective handball when everyone knows that is nonsense.

 

I would have preferred if someone with football knowledge and knowledge of the rules of the game had attended the meeting with the SFA.  I have the feeling that they would run rings round Bisgrove and he isn't savvy enough to see through them.

 

We are now in a place where the SFA have doubled down, the REFS are calling for a meeting and the 2 real culprits Clancy and Walsh have got away with it.  Clancy's 2 minutes extra time at the end of the first have when there was a lengthy injury stoppage, substitution and a (albeit short) VAR call is a joke.  Walsh's entire performance was strewn with errors entirely to our detriment and in their favour.  He missed an opportunity to give Johnstone a second yellow when he had already yellow carded our player in an identical situation and another (can't remember his name) should also have been shown a second yellow. It was one of the worst performance I've ever seen and he does it all the time.  These 2 are the real culprits and work to Celtic's advantage every time they are required.

 

It is disappointing that the rest of Scottish football have yet again lost their tongues.

[Rousseau 10,618]

6 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

I am left bemused and perplexed by the entire handball shenanigans.  What on earth is a subjective handball? 

Deliberate or not. Can you say with 100% accuracy that x, y, or z handled the ball accidentally or deliberately. 

 

That's an example of a subjective hand ball. 

 

For what it's worth, I think Johnstone handled it accidentally. A penalty still should have been awarded (and then rescinded as Sima was offside).

 

You and I are disagreeing on this incident, suggesting that there's a level of subjectivity to it.

 

VAR won't remove subjectivity from the game; there are too many instances where it's up to the subjectivity of the referee. 

 

(I don't disagree with your thoughts on the incompetence of our set-up.) 

[Fa1833 224]

1 minute ago, Rousseau said:

Deliberate or not. Can you say with 100% accuracy that x, y, or z handled the ball accidentally or deliberately. 

 

That's an example of a subjective hand ball. 

 

For what it's worth, I think Johnstone handled it accidentally. A penalty still should have been awarded (and then rescinded as Sima was offside).

 

You and I are disagreeing on this incident, suggesting that there's a level of subjectivity to it.

 

VAR won't remove subjectivity from the game; there are too many instances where it's up to the subjectivity of the referee. 

 

(I don't disagree with your thoughts on the incompetence of our set-up.) 

I think they should attach lie detectors to there already existing data equipment they have attached to there backs under there top's 🤣🤣

[compo 7,042]

The next time VAR gives us the benefit of a controversial decision it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread let’s not let this fester .

[Gonzo79 15,294]

VAR should have got the wee yahoo left back to do a lie detector test, to find out if he meant it or not.

 

I'm happy to wait a couple of hours, as long as the correct decision is made.

 

[Blue Moon 1,289]

1 hour ago, compo said:

The next time VAR gives us the benefit of a controversial decision it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread let’s not let this fester .

I am not blaming VAR per se.  I am still in favour of it.

[Bill 13,717]

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

Deliberate or not. Can you say with 100% accuracy that x, y, or z handled the ball accidentally or deliberately. 

That's an example of a subjective hand ball. 

Since the issue of deliberate or accidental is irrelevant, there should be nothing subjective about it. If there is then VAR is a complete waste of time. There are two fairly straightforward decisions - did the ball contact the player's arm and was his arm in an unnatural position (whatever that is) at the moment of contact? In this particular case there was definitely contact and the are was well away from the player's body, so it's a mystery why subjectivity would come into it.

 

In the beginning, it was thought by many that VAR would relieve officials of pressure by making it clear to fans why certain decisions were arrived at. In reality what it has done is provide fans with enough information to confirm how inadequate our officials are and have been all along. Now we have an incident that takes things further and sheds light on something much darker than incompetence, something that I've long suspected permeates not only football but virtually every institution in Scottish life. Willing corruption.

[Bill 13,717]

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

You and I are disagreeing on this incident, suggesting that there's a level of subjectivity to it.

Nonsense man. You are wrong, I am right. Where's the subjectivity in that? 😉

[Scott7 6,007]

2 hours ago, Blue Moon said:

I am left bemused and perplexed by the entire handball shenanigans.  ………….

Not a wrong word in that except I thought the spalpeen actually flicked the ball over the line with his hand. Penalty morning, noon and night.

[Blue Moon 1,289]

11 minutes ago, Bill said:

Since the issue of deliberate or accidental is irrelevant, there should be nothing subjective about it. If there is then VAR is a complete waste of time. There are two fairly straightforward decisions - did the ball contact the player's arm and was his arm in an unnatural position (whatever that is) at the moment of contact? In this particular case there was definitely contact and the are was well away from the player's body, so it's a mystery why subjectivity would come into it.

 

In the beginning, it was thought by many that VAR would relieve officials of pressure by making it clear to fans why certain decisions were arrived at. In reality what it has done is provide fans with enough information to confirm how inadequate our officials are and have been all along. Now we have an incident that takes things further and sheds light on something much darker than incompetence, something that I've long suspected permeates not only football but virtually every institution in Scottish life. Willing corruption.

Agree wholeheartedly with that.