What is better: A keeper that comes and flaps or a keeper that is glued to the line?

[RANGERRAB 3,654]

I’ve got two issues signing Jack Butland as our first choice GK for next season:-

 

1) what happens if we sign him on a 3 year contract at £30-40k p.w. & he starts making too many mistakes like Jon McLaughlin did start last season?

2) if he’s so good why has he hardly played these past 2 seasons? Surely someone down south would have signed him by now?

 

I think we need to give McCrorie his chance & we need to sign another young keeper to challenge him for the jersey.
I don’t think he looked great at times yesterday but he’s only 25 and we have to be a bit more patient.All GK’s make mistakes. 

[Uilleam 5,929]

19 minutes ago, RANGERRAB said:

Problem is you can’t always guarantee the player you’re signing is better 

And that is one of the reasons we are not extravagantly paid football managers. 

[pete 2,499]

5 mill for the diving on the spot, Vasilis Barkas . He seems to be doing well at Utrecht and the fans love him. Utrecht want to buy him, but are afraid the tims are wanting 10-15 million for him. They are not willing to pay that.

[pete 2,499]

13 hours ago, Frankie said:

Coming for crosses is one of the hardest things a goalkeeper can do and not many 'keepers are consistently good at it. It requires a reading of various factors; weather, flight of the ball, positioning, communication and negotiating a path to the ball. This calculation has to be done in milli-seconds so it's not a surprise to see mistakes happen. It's also something driven by confidence - an on-form 'keeper will seem to claim everything, whilst an off-form one will hold back.

 

Saving shots is more instinctive and arguably easier in the grand scheme of things. As is commanding your box - which is different from claiming crosses. I'd suggest McCrorie still commanded his box fairly well yesterday which allowed our defence to play farther up the park once again. He did drop one fairly easy cross ball early on which was perhaps down to the greasy conditions and I thought he should have stayed on his line when Nisbet headed just wide early in the 2nd half. But he claimed several balls at the edge of his box and swept up one outside his box as well which McGregor often struggled with in the last season or two.

 

Other than that McCrorie was fine. Remember we also had another, younger centre-half playing yesterday so that would have affected communication a wee bit; perhaps making everyone slightly more anxious. 

 

Good to see you back on the forum, Pete - hope you're well!

Thanks, Frankie. Apart from the old age aches and pains, I am fine. I have always loved the Gersnet and looked in as guest. I just felt I needed a break. It was longer than I thought.

[Rousseau 10,603]

13 hours ago, yuddie said:

Best keeper in recent memory that comes for crosses is Emi Martinez at Villa. Definite comparisons between him becoming a no.1 late and McCrorie.

 

People are talking as if signing Butland would be the end of McCrorie, if he really is as average as people make out and makes mistakes often then Robbie will be back in and will get his chance.

 

There's nothing to lose with signing another experienced good level keeper on a free in line with the wage bill, we bloody should be imo. It's not a case of either or.

 

And I'm not being funny, if being capped by your country and playing in the Premier League is having an 'ok' career then 99% of goalies are failures.

John is diminishing Butland's ability to make a point. 

 

In truth, Butland was a superb 'keeper; one of the best in the PL. 

 

He then takes a dip in form just before Covid and an injury that messes up the next year or two. 

 

Crystal Palace sign him for competition, but they did have Gaita as 1st, who is, again, one of the best in the PL.

 

Then Man Utd take him as back-up - he wasn't ever expected to displace DeGea - which is another positive, IMO, because Man Utd wouldn't take rubbish.

 

He's not a Championship 'keeper, he's a PL 'keeper. 

 

The issue is wages. 

[Rousseau 10,603]

13 hours ago, Uilleam said:

Basically, it is pretty simple, and it applies, really, to any position: play your best man, until you can lay hand on someone better. 

 

 

That doesn't answer the OP's question, I know. The answer to that is Peter Shilton. 

 

 

 

That was OK when every player did the same thing in a given position, but positions are specialised now. 

 

Two forwards can be chalk and cheese in terms of style, yet both can be best for a team that suits them. 

 

Take Joelinton. Superb at Hoffenhiem as a link-up, target man, but never a goalscorer. Newcastle take him and play him as a goal scoring number 9 and he's useless. Then Howe drops him deeper, as a link-up player - nearer to what he did best at Hoffenheim - and he's a revelation. 

[alexscottislegend 2,320]

Oh for a Pat Jennings; comes out, takes the ball with one hand. Mind you, he did have hands like shovels.

[JohnMc 2,750]

45 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

John is diminishing Butland's ability to make a point. 

 

In truth, Butland was a superb 'keeper; one of the best in the PL. 

 

He then takes a dip in form just before Covid and an injury that messes up the next year or two. 

 

Crystal Palace sign him for competition, but they did have Gaita as 1st, who is, again, one of the best in the PL.

 

Then Man Utd take him as back-up - he wasn't ever expected to displace DeGea - which is another positive, IMO, because Man Utd wouldn't take rubbish.

 

He's not a Championship 'keeper, he's a PL 'keeper. 

 

The issue is wages. 

I'm really not. Since making his first team debut in 2011 he's only spent 2 seasons as the first choice keeper for a side in the English Premier League. One of those seasons saw his side relegated. Every other season in his career he's either been the back up making a single figure number of appearances, out injured or he's been in League 2 or the English Championship. I'm not sure clubs signing him and then choosing not to play him really enhances his reputation either. 

 

Look, I think that Butland is a 'better' keeper than McCrorie currently, he's significantly more experienced and at the perfect age for a keeper. However, I don't believe, based on what he's done to date, that Butland is a 'top' keeper and so significantly better than McCrorie as to warrant the expenditure. With the limited budget we've got I'd gamble on McCrorie, keep McLaughlin as back up and invest our money elsewhere in the squad. 

[Rousseau 10,603]

11 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

I'm really not. Since making his first team debut in 2011 he's only spent 2 seasons as the first choice keeper for a side in the English Premier League. One of those seasons saw his side relegated. Every other season in his career he's either been the back up making a single figure number of appearances, out injured or he's been in League 2 or the English Championship. I'm not sure clubs signing him and then choosing not to play him really enhances his reputation either. 

 

Look, I think that Butland is a 'better' keeper than McCrorie currently, he's significantly more experienced and at the perfect age for a keeper. However, I don't believe, based on what he's done to date, that Butland is a 'top' keeper and so significantly better than McCrorie as to warrant the expenditure. With the limited budget we've got I'd gamble on McCrorie, keep McLaughlin as back up and invest our money elsewhere in the squad. 

When you say '[Butland has] had an ok career, but he's a Championship level keeper with an iffy injury record', you really are diminishing his ability to make a point.

 

However, I don't disagree with your general point in the post I was referencing. 

[26th of foot 6,082]

16 minutes ago, alexscottislegend said:

Oh for a Pat Jennings; comes out, takes the ball with one hand. Mind you, he did have hands like shovels.

Or a Gary Sprake.

 

I remember a Home International at Hampden in the late sixties, Sprake took a through ball with one hand and threw it from the middle of his box towards a lurking Wyn Davies in the centre circle. The throw cleared the half way line and their was a collective wow from the crowd.

 

Interestingly about Pat Jennings, it seemed he made most of his saves with his feet?