MacK1950 2,376 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 5 hours ago, alexscottislegend said: Bit harsh on him I think but I do remember Greigy getting the winner in a crucial game v Italy in the sixties. Was at that game,the only game my dad ever went to,loved that last minute goal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, MacK1950 said: Was at that game,the only game my dad ever went to,loved that last minute goal. The return leg in Italy was played in the afternoon for some reason and we were given a half day off school to watch it. It didn't go so well and Scotland was eliminated 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo 7,030 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 On 29/03/2023 at 20:38, Bill said: The return leg in Italy was played in the afternoon for some reason and we were given a half day off school to watch it. It didn't go so well and Scotland was eliminated That Scotland team was decimated by call offs if I remember correctly 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1964 10,721 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,750 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) I'm going against the grain, I find myself enjoying international football more these days than for a long time. When I started taking a serious interest in football going to watch Scotland was as normal as going to watch Rangers. I barely missed a Scotland home match from around 1982 to 1989 or so. Then, like a lot of Rangers supporters, my interest started to wane. Now I can't actually remember the last Scotland match I attended, certainly it wasn't this century. I'll still watch them if they're on TV, I still want them to win and they still have the power to elate or depress me depending how the performance goes. My expectations are different from Rangers. I almost expect Scotland to disappoint me in a way I don't expect from Rangers. I'll caveat all of that though, Rangers can elate or depress me on a scale Scotland simply can't, or haven't so far. Reaching the Europa League final last season was an incredible feeling, maybe if Scotland reached the latter stages of a finals competition it would feel the same. I'm not sure I'll ever find that out. Losing to Celtic puts me on a downer that so far no Scotland result ever has. Where my enjoyment of international football is coming from isn't directly connected to watching Scotland. I feel international football is simply more meritocratic than club football. The powerful club sides in the bigger leagues are on such different level financially now that frankly the sport is now rigged. It's impossible for a club with Rangers support and history to compete with any English side in their top flight. That gap only looks like it'll continue to grow in the coming seasons. Chelsea spent over £350 million in January, and no one bats an eyelid. When we do produce a decent young player he's taken from us, often before he's even made the first team squad far less played 50 matches for us. We can see this happen all across Europe now, a two tier system is firmly in place. It wasn't always like that. In my formative years clubs like Rangers could expect to compete in Europe against the very best. Clubs like Brugge, Malmo, PSV, Benfica and Porto all made the European Cup Final. They all now struggle to even qualify for the Champion's League. Which is where international football comes in. Spain are clearly lacking in a top striker currently, as they demonstrated on Wednesday night. Now, if it was Barca or Real they'd simply go out and buy the best striker in Brazil or Germany or wherever. Spain can't do that, they need to work with the players they have. That's why we see countries like Portugal, Croatia, Morocco, Belgium, Uruguay and Wales reach semi finals in recent years. The bigger countries will always have an inbuilt advantage simply through having more players to choose from, but smaller nations can compete, they can sometimes do more than compete when they get a handful of very good players at one time. International football is simply fairer. I love that Argentina can have the best player in the world in their side, but they might need to also play a couple of total journeymen in the same team. I miss the Rangers matches during international breaks, but I enjoy watching football that's not as corrupt or imbalanced as club football now is. Edited March 31, 2023 by JohnMc 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 It would be interesting to compare the average club salaries of different national teams. I've a feeling it wouldn't look quite so meritocratic. What it might expose is the way the best players in Portugal, Uruguay, Brazil, etc are being developed by rich club sides in the biggest leagues and are no reflection on the national setup they represent in international football. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,750 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 There are certainly quite a few examples of players who have never played professionally in their 'home' country. There are quite a few who come through the ranks at a club in their home country but leave very early in their careers for a much wealthier league too. I just like that say Norway can have Odegaard, a guy who joined Real Madrid as a 16 year old, and Haaland, arguably the most coveted forward in the world, playing alongside Strandberg a 32 year old centre half for Vålerenga a mid table Norwegian side. I'm not so naive that I don't think money plays a part in international football as well, but just not at the same level as club football. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 I think international football reflects exactly the same financial disparity as club football and perhaps to an even greater extent. Other than an occasional blip like Denmark or Greece winning the Euros, success at international level is concentrated in very few countries. Only 8 countries have won 22 World Cups contested so far - the 5 big leagues in Europe and the three to leaves in South America. Ten out of sixteen Euros have been won by four of the 5 big leagues. The correlation between international success and the financial clout of the domestic league is almost total. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,750 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 This century has seen Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain (twice) and France win it. With Holland, Turkey, Czech Republic, Wales and Denmark all making the semis. England have never won it, Germany not since 96. In that same period only one club, Porto in 2004, outside of England, Germany, Italy and Spain has won the Champion's League, and that's played every season, not every 4 like the Euros. No Welsh, Danish, Greek, Turkish or Czech club side is getting to the semis of the Champion's League anytime soon. Italy's victory a year or so ago comes as Serie A is as weak as it's been in my lifetime. If you look at the World Cup then you have to accept that neither Brazil or Argentina have financially strong domestic leagues, certainly not compared to the wealthy European leagues. Yet both countries compete regularly at the top of international football. French league football, barring one artificially inflated club, can't compete with the English or Spanish leagues, yet France have been consistently one of the best international sides of the last 25 years. England haven't won a tournament in my lifetime, and I am not a young man. In the same period English club sides have won 13 European Cups/Champion's League titles, despite being banned from the competition for some of those years. More importantly is the last few years and the next few. The weaker domestic leagues are only going to fall further and further behind the big 3 or 4, but I'm fairly confident several of those countries with weak domestic leagues will at least reach the semis of a major international tournament. Rangers can barely lay a glove on Real Madrid or Barcelona currently, yet Scotland can beat Spain in a match that actually matters. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 hours ago, JohnMc said: Rangers can barely lay a glove on Real Madrid or Barcelona currently, yet Scotland can beat Spain in a match that actually matters. Yet Rangers can beat Dortmund in a match that actually matters, while Scotland lose home and away to Wales in WC qualifiers. Which shows you can make a case for anything if you chose carefully. Better to stick to the big picture ... club sides from big leagues have more money to attract the best players from all countries and win most club tournaments .... and countries that have most players playing club football in the big leagues win almost all international tournaments. Sure, there are occasional exceptions but the broad picture is that club and international success march in step to the same tune. What's to get excited about? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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