GvB future

[buster. 5,257]

15 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I think the squad is fine. 

 

I think the manager is rubbish. 

 

 

Your argument doesn't convince me.

[Rousseau 10,823]

22 minutes ago, buster. said:

Your argument doesn't convince me.

Oh-no.  

 

I can only say it so many times: For me, a better manager gets more out of this squad. The squad is not inherently bad. (That's not to say it doesn't need refreshed, and it's certainly short in some areas - which I've stated regularly.)

 

Your argument seems to be that motivation and results fluctuate, so the whole squad needs replaced. I'm not sure how one would measure motivation; it is too subjective. Results have fluctuated. If you can use bad results to suggest the squad is poor, I can use the good results to suggest the squad is good, or at least capable of being good. It's just different interpretations. 

 

For me, performances have been consistently bad under GvB. I even think they were better under SG, despite wanting him gone because it had become stale. Performances were poor, but I never thought we'd lose - we certainly didn't concede many. Under GvB, not only are the performances consistently poor - although there have been some superb tactical performances - but there's a softness to the team that wasn't there before. Even that winning run when he first arrived was lucky, in some cases: especially the last-minute penalty against Hibs to win 0-1. 

 

Again: a better manager gets more out of this squad. 

[DMAA 3,658]

23 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Oh-no.  

 

I can only say it so many times: For me, a better manager gets more out of this squad. The squad is not inherently bad. (That's not to say it doesn't need refreshed, and it's certainly short in some areas - which I've stated regularly.)

 

Your argument seems to be that motivation and results fluctuate, so the whole squad needs replaced. I'm not sure how one would measure motivation; it is too subjective. Results have fluctuated. If you can use bad results to suggest the squad is poor, I can use the good results to suggest the squad is good, or at least capable of being good. It's just different interpretations. 

 

For me, performances have been consistently bad under GvB. I even think they were better under SG, despite wanting him gone because it had become stale. Performances were poor, but I never thought we'd lose - we certainly didn't concede many. Under GvB, not only are the performances consistently poor - although there have been some superb tactical performances - but there's a softness to the team that wasn't there before. Even that winning run when he first arrived was lucky, in some cases: especially the last-minute penalty against Hibs to win 0-1. 

 

Again: a better manager gets more out of this squad. 

Definitely. In my opinion we should be finding someone while we have the draw of a few games in the Champions League to offer, and still a chance of making the Europa. It isn’t going to happen though. 
 

The poor recruitment and mismanagement of the squad is my biggest gripe. We are terrible and recruiting creative players, our record is dire. It doesn’t seem to matter who is our manager, our lineups are invariably too defensive and lacking in flair and excitement (and relying on Kent for that proves my point). 
 

In terms of mismanagement of the squad, our failure to sell high and buy low is endemic. We have hung onto every player possible who brought us success in Europe in 2019. 9 out of 11 who played in the 1-0 win over Feyenoord started our last game, and all but Ojo are still involved regularly. Kent and Morelos were worth something and we turned away excellent bids for them. I believe people in the club overrating them the way many fans did is probably the blame for that. 
 

We’re now in a situation where if you look at our squad and ask where the next big sale comes from the answer is pretty much nowhere. Our starting 11 is possibly the oldest in the league. In contrast, Celtic took 2 transfer windows to assemble a squad that has several players who could realistically fetch big money at some point. 
 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by DMAA

[Sutton_blows_goats 5,466]

13 minutes ago, DMAA said:

We’re now in a situation where if you look at our squad and ask where the next big sale comes from the answer is pretty much nowhere. Our starting 11 is possibly the oldest in the league. In contrast, Celtic took 2 transfer windows to assemble a squad that has several players who could realistically fetch big money at some point. 

Very true, people don't like to hear it but we are not a massive draw to any potential manager. A massive rebuild ahead and no money to spend. 

[Rousseau 10,823]

17 minutes ago, DMAA said:

Definitely. In my opinion we should be finding someone while we have the draw of a few games in the Champions League to offer, and still a chance of making the Europa. It isn’t going to happen though. 
 

The poor recruitment and mismanagement of the squad is my biggest gripe. We are terrible and recruiting creative players, our record is dire. It doesn’t seem to matter who is our manager, our lineups are invariably too defensive and lacking in flair and excitement (and relying on Kent for that proves my point). 
 

In terms of mismanagement of the squad, our failure to sell high and buy low is endemic. We have hung onto every player possible who brought us success in Europe in 2019. 9 out of 11 who played in the 1-0 win over Feyenoord started our last game, and all but Ojo are still involved regularly. Kent and Morelos were worth something and we turned away excellent bids for them. I believe people in the club overrating them the way many fans did is probably the blame for that. 
 

We’re now in a situation where if you look at our squad and ask where the next big sale comes from the answer is pretty much nowhere. Our starting 11 is possibly the oldest in the league. In contrast, Celtic took 2 transfer windows to assemble a squad that has several players who could realistically fetch big money at some point. 
 

 

Theoretically, the next sales should be Kamara and Hagi. It'll not be Bassey levels, but we will still make a decent amount from them. 

 

(I agree that Morelos and Kent should have been sold by now. I wanted to accept the Chinese bid for Morelos - when was that?)

[DMAA 3,658]

9 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Theoretically, the next sales should be Kamara and Hagi. It'll not be Bassey levels, but we will still make a decent amount from them. 

 

(I agree that Morelos and Kent should have been sold by now. I wanted to accept the Chinese bid for Morelos - when was that?)

I kind of forgot about Kamara tbh. I’ve long felt he would fetch decent money but things haven’t been trending in that direction recently. Hagi’s injury has killed anything for now. Recapturing form will take time too. 
 

The China one was very early, that was his first season I think. The Lille one was the one that annoyed me, I remember posting on here about it. But we turned down £16.5m and they walked away. With Kent it was Leeds 2 years ago, the figures were never released although £10m was rumoured. 

[DMAA 3,658]

19 minutes ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

Very true, people don't like to hear it but we are not a massive draw to any potential manager. A massive rebuild ahead and no money to spend. 

There should be decent money to spend next summer with all the contracts expiring. Because the other big reason to refresh the squad regularly is that it keeps the wage bill low. By holding onto guys and handing out new contracts we end up with a huge wage bill but with an ageing and demotivated squad. By selling regularly you are bringing in fresh players on low wages and selling before you hand out the big wage rises. 

[DMAA 3,658]

2 minutes ago, DMAA said:

There should be decent money to spend next summer with all the contracts expiring. Because the other big reason to refresh the squad regularly is that it keeps the wage bill low. By holding onto guys and handing out new contracts we end up with a huge wage bill but with an ageing and demotivated squad. By selling regularly you are bringing in fresh players on low wages and selling before you hand out the big wage rises. 

On this point, I’ve just checked what RB Salzburg’s wage bill is apparently 15 million euros. I find that figure hard to believe, but it will still be significantly lower than ours and I have no doubt that they have better players, and loads of assets, and they are coping fine with the Champions League. We need to be more ambitious and starting following the example of clubs like that. 

[Sutton_blows_goats 5,466]

25 minutes ago, DMAA said:

There should be decent money to spend next summer with all the contracts expiring.

Hopefully. As things stand though I'm not sure Sands and Tillman are worth he supposed £10 million outlay we would need to make both moves permanent. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Sutton_blows_goats

[Rousseau 10,823]

32 minutes ago, DMAA said:

On this point, I’ve just checked what RB Salzburg’s wage bill is apparently 15 million euros. I find that figure hard to believe, but it will still be significantly lower than ours and I have no doubt that they have better players, and loads of assets, and they are coping fine with the Champions League. We need to be more ambitious and starting following the example of clubs like that. 

I love Salzburg. They have a phenomenal football department. (It's no wonder Chelsea were after their DoF. He seems to have turned them down, though.)

 

I especially like their managerial appointments. It's a who's who of some of the most innovative mangers you'll ever see: Schmidt, Hutter, Garcia, Rose, Marsch, and now Jaissle. 

 

They have a recognisable style that they want to implement and appoint young managers that can implement that style. Those appointed don't have track records with other clubs, their record comes from their ability to implement that desired style of play. Jaissle's record was as an assistant, their U18s and then their feeder club FC Leifering in the Austrian second division (he actually took over from Bo Svensson, another talented coach, currently with Mainz). Hutter, Rose, Marsch and jaissle were all involved with the Academy and feeder teams - and other Red Bull organisations. (It helps of you have a feeder club, or two... )

 

I hope that's part of the reason why we've brought in Bowley. Someone that can help us create and implement a style of play throughout the club, so we can then, ideally, promote managers from within. Perhaps not, though. It's certainly high level stuff. 

 

These managers have the ability to implement their styles on whatever players the club acquires. It's all linked up: The players they buy have to have certain traits, that align with their playing style, that the managers have a track record of being able to implement etc. 

 

That's the dream...