match thread (image) [FT] Celtic 4 - 0 Rangers

[Sutton_blows_goats 5,334]

14 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

GvB will definitely get the see out the CL group stage. Probably longer, unless things go really tits up.  

It will cost a fortune to pay him and his team off. Which is probably why we will stick with him.

[Gonzo79 15,293]

So are the players not listening to the coaches or are they just happy to roll over and get pumped at the Piggery?

 

Worrying.  

[weebluedevil 1,239]

1 minute ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

It will cost a fortune to pay him and his team off. Which is probably why we will stick with him.

And he has taken our incoming revenue to the next level and doesn't push for signings so he's the golden boy. 

[Uilleam 5,929]

46 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

So are the players not listening to the coaches or are they just happy to roll over and get pumped at the Piggery?

 

Worrying.  

Are the players happy to get pumped at the piggery?

Are the coaches?

Are both? 

It is hard to say, and that is, indeed, worrying. 

 

[Gonzo79 15,293]

1 minute ago, Uilleam said:

Are the players happy to get pumped at the piggery?

Are the coaches?

Are both? 

They don't seem particularly bothered.  Plenty of friendly chats and cuddles after we got absolutely battered.  

 

That demonstrates a lack of pride, in my opinion.  

[der Berliner 3,744]

19 hours ago, gisabeer said:

Who do you rank as the under performers?   

I`d start at the top with Gio (and Roy), continue with Goldson and end up with Kent.

 

De facto, we have stagnated in Scottish football after about half a year of Warburton. It was him who installed the modern football 4-3-3 and we got away with that due to having superior players than the opposition. But whether in the Championship or indeed our first season(s) back in the Premiership, the opposition sussed us out, sussed our players out and simply adapted to their now common "hardcore" brickwall-and-hope-for-standards-or-counters style. Apart from the Scum, who simply had and have quality players that are on par with ours, no matter how much we might deny that. They had CL money and have been brutally effective with player sales. Yes, they get pummeled in Europe (and I for one do not look forward to games against Ajax and Liverpool, IF we don`t come up with extraordinary performances like we did against Leipzig, Dortmund or now PSV), but likewise have built a squad capable of beating nigh anything the Premiership puts in front of them.

 

So why stagnate? Well, I might sound like a broken record, but we simply do not have the players to sustain that 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 style against those defensive line-ups that we essentially see every other week in Scotland. Not least when our main threat is not coming up with the goods and our wing-attackers are not weighing in with a reasonable amount of goals, and there is no-one really joining up in the attack from the midfielders. So while we indeed produce spectacular amount of chances, i.e. 15 to 30 shots of which 1/4 are on target, we don`t score enough goals. And if we are not up by 2 or 3, the opposition oftentimes goes gung-ho for the last 10 to 15 mins and we usually comply with presenting them with an equalizer. One only has to go through the league game charts of the last few seasons to note that our scorelines have the odd 2 or more clear goal wins, but many are close affairs, if not draws or worse. I know that people will see it differently, but 55 was not won because we pummeled anyone in obedience, but also (sic!) because a) our defence played a blinder and b) there were no supporters getting at the players' backs or "intimidating" our new signings. The season after 55, our defence went back to normal - and I for one was very suprised to see us giving Goldson a new long term deal. While at the other end, we continue our attempts at breaking down defences with inadequate means.

 

We obviously did very well in Europe and thank the heavens for SG`s work in that department, which was continued by Gio. Yet, while our system and the players worked there, it was never really changed at home, where it was obvious that it was inadequate to get results in a way we are, IMHO, well capable of. Another point that will not sit right with many Bears is the simple truth that under Gerrard, and to an extent Gio too, we gave certain players far too much playing time when it was either not needed or not warranted. There is no doubt that Aribo, Kent and Kamara are fine footballers, yet e.g. we never really utilized Aribo to his real strengths (IMHO, central attacking midfield), but likewise hardly ever dropped him if his football was not the order of the day. The culmination of it all was playing him as the striker when Roofe and Sakala were on the bench in Seville.

The same with Kamara. The lad is a fine footballer and a perfect DM and ball-winner. Yet, we started playing him further up the park and yesterday was a fine example that he can hold the ball up there and do little twists and turns, but he simply does not "hurt" the opposition. In 9 out of 10, make that 19 out of 20 cases up and around the penalty area, Kamara will pass the ball rather than shoot himself. Yet under SG we oftentimes played him and Davis/Lundstram/Jack, when only one of them was needed. Hence, much like that horrendous inter-passing of our defenders in deep midfield, we are probably kings of possession and passing, but the last time these stats won you a game was never.

And then there is Kent. He`s been here since 2018 and his style hardly ever changed. At times, he looks like he`s destined for a return to Liverpool and the EPL, and then he looks like a different version of Gregg Wylde, a speed merchant with hardly any end product. Be that as it may, my biggest bone of contention with him remains the fact that as a attacker he doesn`t score enough goals. His stats as a left-winger are probably second to none, yet in days gone by we would not have expected a Neil McCann to chip in with 10-20 goals a season, which essentially is what is required of a 3-man attack line per player. Kent was SG`s darling and is probably the most used player next to Tavernier and McGregor over the SG years. No matter whether he actually came up with any goods. The "funny" thing is, that for ages the support saw something in him that seemingly never was in Wright, Sakala, you name it, who get slaughtered every other week, no matter whether they chalk up goals, assists or good play. Some sort of objectivity got lost here. Same with us playing 4-2-3-1 against no matter who, when it is clear that this does not work in Scotland. And it is gut-wrenching to see Gio and Roy sitting there watching on and you think: there`s one star-striker who should get it into Gio that this one-striker-stuff and underperforming "wing-attackers" don`t cut it.

 

I usually keep watching through even our dire games and while I didn´t see it, we were humbled 2-6 in Advocaat`s reign when they scored with nigh any chance while we didn`t, despite having enough chances ourselves. We beat them 5-1 in the return game. But yesterday I simply had enough after 45 mins. Kent doing his dribblings on the right side of defence when a simple clearance (our defenders have seemingly forgotten that word combination too) no matter where would have eased the danger. Throw in, quick passes, 0-1. Next he was up at the other end, taking the ball from the halfway line and running till he was about 5 yards out and confronted by that one defender too many, chance missed - Part 463. Minutes later, Kamara on the left wing exchanging passes with Kent and Borna for fun, but no penetration, till we loose the ball.

 

As I said, we stagnated and hardly ever adapted to the opposition at hand ... we simply changed the players for the respective positions and hoped for the best with better quality. Unless we stop this one-striker dross against the brickwall brigade, play decent wingers alongside 2 strikers, we will just toil on, every then and now "blinded" by a mauling against teams like the Stags last week. 

 

As soon as Davies and Helander are back, Goldson needs to get "a little breather" ...

[Uilleam 5,929]

34 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

They don't seem particularly bothered.  Plenty of friendly chats and cuddles after we got absolutely battered.  

 

That demonstrates a lack of pride, in my opinion.  

I am told the fat okker was saying stuff, pre match, like 

'We hate them....they hate us'. 

Nothing new, there, but it puts any pals-at-the-palais stuff from our lads into perspective. 

[Sutton_blows_goats 5,334]

1 hour ago, weebluedevil said:

And he has taken our incoming revenue to the next level and doesn't push for signings so he's the golden boy. 

He was exact same at feyenoord. They were skint and he over achieved there keeping heat off the board for long enough.

[buster. 5,186]

1 hour ago, Uilleam said:

Are the players happy to get pumped at the piggery?

Are the coaches?

Are both? 

It is hard to say, and that is, indeed, worrying. 

 

The players didn't seem to have the belief or purpose required. 

 

On seeing the respective starting lineups, there seemed a horrible inevitably as to what would happen.

 

Losing Lawrence was a big blow and the alternative used brought about the inevitability.

Alternatives may well not have worked either but the dynamic may have started differently.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the players didn't believe in the game plan. The collective attitude on the pitch contributed to the inevitability of events and meek surrender.

 

If the coaches complain of players not taking on board basic messages (readiness for quick throw-ins, etc.), then it highlights a major and vital problem.

 

Perhaps we need a coach to coach the coach of the coaches.

 

Perhaps we just need a new direction.

 

[CammyF 8,085]

1 hour ago, der Berliner said:

 

 

As soon as Davies and Helander are back, Goldson needs to get "a little breather" ...

It'll be a short breather, Helander is made of cardboard. Does anyone know how many consecutive games he's managed for us?