Ceri Bowley to join Rangers from City Group as first-team coach

[Uilleam 5,948]

Those who can, do; those who can't, coach; those who can't coach, coach coaches. 

Or so the more cynical may offer. 

 

We seem to be developing a small colony of Welshmen. 

[Rousseau 10,664]

I think it's an important role. 

 

We're trying to develop the B-team model, which requires all our youth teams playing the same way, so it assists in player development straight through into the first-team. 

 

To have a coach that can facilitate that is good news. 

 

Of course, Bowley's scope with us is considerably smaller - City Group have a number of clubs to manage in that regard.

 

It gives us a level of future planning too: any new coach that comes in will have a playing philosophy with which to work with and implement, and a man to manage that transition. 

 

To have a coach that can pass on City Group's playing philosophy (think Man City) to our teams is exciting. 

[Rousseau 10,664]

36 minutes ago, Tannochsidebear said:

Sounds to me like a manufactured job for a mate. Another £100K or so out the club we cant really afford for very little back. How much do you think the wage bill is now for all the backroom team? My guess would be bigger than the entire playing squad wage budget for each but one of our domestic rivals. You've got to ask if all this is really necessary for a club with our limited income streams?

That's the point. 

 

A club of our financial circumstances needs to do things differently. 

 

The reason Brentford are where they are is not because they happen to have a good manager and good players; they've developed it, despite having the lowest budget, not only in the PL but also low for Championship standard (I believe?). They developed their B-team, developed the moneyball approach to player trading, developed their playing philosophy, for their first-team and youth teams; they've got an army of coaches and analysts to facilitate that.

 

If we can apply some of those principles, we'll do well.  

[craig 5,199]

30 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I think it's an important role. 

 

We're trying to develop the B-team model, which requires all our youth teams playing the same way, so it assists in player development straight through into the first-team. 

 

To have a coach that can facilitate that is good news. 

 

Of course, Bowley's scope with us is considerably smaller - City Group have a number of clubs to manage in that regard.

 

It gives us a level of future planning too: any new coach that comes in will have a playing philosophy with which to work with and implement, and a man to manage that transition. 

 

To have a coach that can pass on City Group's playing philosophy (think Man City) to our teams is exciting. 

This is an interesting philosophy, and one that I subscribed to as well.  However, I was having beers with the former Watford Academy director last week (now the Wales women's assistant manager) and he actually disagrees with this approach and his reasoning is compelling.  For a player, and even a team, having the same philosophy only works so long as the first team has the same philosophy and, when it doesnt, those players now need to be re-trained in differing formations and tactics.  If you look at us, that is true because GvB's style differs from Gerrard's.  And is probably true of all clubs.  The Watford guys reasoning is sound in that players need to be flexible to different approaches and by not having that flexibility will hurt players when a change inevitably occurs.

 

By contrast, my son's head coach at his Academy was brought onto the Leeds payroll by Bielsa to do what we have done, Leeds didnt have a consistent philosophy from Academy to First Team - so he was brought in to put into place a structure that saw the Academy play the same way, same philosophy as the first team.  When Bielsa got fired, he got fired too because Marshe doesnt want that or isnt interested in it - the coach got picked up immediately by Peterbrough for the U18 & U23 coaching role.

 

So it is clearly a subject which is torn, even within the pro ranks.

[craig 5,199]

30 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

That's the point. 

 

A club of our financial circumstances needs to do things differently. 

 

The reason Brentford are where they are is not because they happen to have a good manager and good players; they've developed it, despite having the lowest budget, not only in the PL but also low for Championship standard (I believe?). They developed their B-team, developed the moneyball approach to player trading, developed their playing philosophy, for their first-team and youth teams; they've got an army of coaches and analysts to facilitate that.

 

If we can apply some of those principles, we'll do well.  

Swansea also did similar back in the day - didnt matter who the head coach was, the philosophy was the same - it can be argued that Swansea created the managerial careers of Martinez, Rodgers, even Laudrup

[stewarty 2,028]

5 minutes ago, craig said:

This is an interesting philosophy, and one that I subscribed to as well.  However, I was having beers with the former Watford Academy director last week (now the Wales women's assistant manager) and he actually disagrees with this approach and his reasoning is compelling.  For a player, and even a team, having the same philosophy only works so long as the first team has the same philosophy and, when it doesnt, those players now need to be re-trained in differing formations and tactics.  If you look at us, that is true because GvB's style differs from Gerrard's.  And is probably true of all clubs.  The Watford guys reasoning is sound in that players need to be flexible to different approaches and by not having that flexibility will hurt players when a change inevitably occurs.

 

By contrast, my son's head coach at his Academy was brought onto the Leeds payroll by Bielsa to do what we have done, Leeds didnt have a consistent philosophy from Academy to First Team - so he was brought in to put into place a structure that saw the Academy play the same way, same philosophy as the first team.  When Bielsa got fired, he got fired too because Marshe doesnt want that or isnt interested in it - the coach got picked up immediately by Peterbrough for the U18 & U23 coaching role.

 

So it is clearly a subject which is torn, even within the pro ranks.

Interesting.

 

Coaches like Gio though, flex their tactics depending on the opposition, so I'm not sure its so much that there are rigid playing styles throughout the club, more about the core elements of the club's philosophy being applied and adapted within different game situations.  

 

 

[Rousseau 10,664]

1 hour ago, craig said:

This is an interesting philosophy, and one that I subscribed to as well.  However, I was having beers with the former Watford Academy director last week (now the Wales women's assistant manager) and he actually disagrees with this approach and his reasoning is compelling.  For a player, and even a team, having the same philosophy only works so long as the first team has the same philosophy and, when it doesnt, those players now need to be re-trained in differing formations and tactics.  If you look at us, that is true because GvB's style differs from Gerrard's.  And is probably true of all clubs.  The Watford guys reasoning is sound in that players need to be flexible to different approaches and by not having that flexibility will hurt players when a change inevitably occurs.

 

By contrast, my son's head coach at his Academy was brought onto the Leeds payroll by Bielsa to do what we have done, Leeds didnt have a consistent philosophy from Academy to First Team - so he was brought in to put into place a structure that saw the Academy play the same way, same philosophy as the first team.  When Bielsa got fired, he got fired too because Marshe doesnt want that or isnt interested in it - the coach got picked up immediately by Peterbrough for the U18 & U23 coaching role.

 

So it is clearly a subject which is torn, even within the pro ranks.

Yes, it's not a panacea; hence why not everyone has adopted it. 

 

I'm in favour of it. I think there's a niche that we can tap into.

 

I think there can be a happy medium, whereby all our youth teams are taught to play in a certain style of play, that benefits them individually and the team, but without getting caught out by being too dependent on one specific tactic - if you know what I mean? Not sure I've worded that properly. Principles rather than specifics. 

 

The problem for Leeds is they don't have a DoF, so any manager coming in can rip up the system. This is not good. I agree there are differences with SG and GvB, but I feel there are enough similarities for it to work. In this day and age, I think it's ridiculous that a manager can come in and rip up a club's philosophy. 

[Rousseau 10,664]

50 minutes ago, craig said:

Swansea also did similar back in the day - didnt matter who the head coach was, the philosophy was the same - it can be argued that Swansea created the managerial careers of Martinez, Rodgers, even Laudrup

Excellent example.

 

They moved away from it, with Guidolin and Bob Bradley etc., but have moved back with Graham Potter, Steve Cooper and... Russel Martin!? (Perhaps too early to say with Martin, but by all accounts, he seems to be doing well. I certainly enjoy the way he's got them playing.) 

[lenny3k 664]

44 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

In this day and age, I think it's ridiculous that a manager can come in and rip up a club's philosophy. 

100% this ^^^

 

I think more and more clubs are now realising this as among many other things, financially, its crazy

[CammyF 8,131]

4 hours ago, Tannochsidebear said:

Sounds to me like a manufactured job for a mate. Another £100K or so out the club we cant really afford for very little back. How much do you think the wage bill is now for all the backroom team? My guess would be bigger than the entire playing squad wage budget for each but one of our domestic rivals. You've got to ask if all this is really necessary for a club with our limited income streams?

Is it any bigger or smaller than Gerrards backroom staff?