BJK - Should It Be Sung

[Koeman 0]

The wrong people are now singing it whenever. eg, the buckfast brigade who in all honesty, probably have no idea what it's about. Also the scarfs being sold with it on them are pretty tastless as well.

 

Time to bin it IMO.

[pete 2,499]

The most important thing is it is not helping Rangers in any way. It is not supporting our team, it is not giving our players a confidence boost in any way, it is looking down on Celtic and not supporting Rangers.

[Gribz 745]

It isn't a song gloryfying Child Abuse or anyone who indulged in child abuse. It is a song that claims (rightly) that Big Jock Knew about said child abuse at Craptic Park and did NOTHING about it.

 

 

Cammy F

Have to agree with that.

 

We are actually making the point known about child abuse rather than the Celtic Cover up.

[craig 5,199]

It isn't a song gloryfying Child Abuse or anyone who indulged in child abuse. It is a song that claims (rightly) that Big Jock Knew about said child abuse at Craptic Park and did NOTHING about it.

 

Billy McNeil has stated that this was an open secret and it was proven in court that Big Jock and the board knew about this and did nothing to protect the children involved.

 

Moreover, when Torbett was sent to jail (eventually) Craptic continued to give him business via The Trophy Centre (then owned by Torbett's daughter). Torbett is now (or was) working with the Scottish Tourist board along with convicted house breaker and woman beater Mossen (ex Lord Provest).

 

Should the song be sung? All down to personal taste IMO. Isn't sectarian, isn't offensive, isn't racist and it is true.

 

Cammy F

 

Come on Cammy.... your first paragraph is using semantics at its best. If you had suffered at the hands of Torbett all those years ago would you be happy to hear football fans singing it and using it to taunt your rivals fans ?

 

What relevance is it to Rangers fans ? NONE.

 

Further, why is it that all of a sudden we are taking the moral high ground to highlight it happened ? If you think that this is being sung by Rangers fans to be moral and highlight social problems that existed at Celtic then I am sorry, but I just cannot agree with you - this is no more than points scoring by Rangers fans.

 

If you believe that it isn't points scoring then good for you - but no-one will convince me it is no more than points scoring.

 

But either way it doesn't belong at a Rangers game - what does it have to do with us ? NOTHING.

[BC2 0]

I may not speak for all Celtic fans, but for what it's worth this song does not wind me up in the slightest.

 

As Cammy has said, it is true, and big Jock and the club should have dealt with it better. To say nothing was done about is is not correct - Torbett was thrown out of the club - but I cannot disagree that somebody within the club, probably a board member rather than the manager, had a duty to inform the authorities. The only partial defence I can offer is that while child abuse did occur in the 60s and 70s, society did not really recognise this fact in the way it does now, and I suspect it was frequently covered up. And before anyone else does, I will immediately name the catholic church in this context.

 

Not sure of the relevance of Celtic dealing with Torbett's daughter after his conviction.

 

Ultimately I would agree with the majority of posters on this topic - I don't think fans who sing this come away with any credit, and am not sure it even achieves the goal of winding up the Celtic fans. Also does big Jock get no credit from Rangers fans for guiding the national team to 2 World Cups, dying in the act?

[CammyF 7,614]

I may not speak for all Celtic fans, but for what it's worth this song does not wind me up in the slightest.

 

As Cammy has said, it is true, and big Jock and the club should have dealt with it better. To say nothing was done about is is not correct - Torbett was thrown out of the club - but I cannot disagree that somebody within the club, probably a board member rather than the manager, had a duty to inform the authorities. The only partial defence I can offer is that while child abuse did occur in the 60s and 70s, society did not really recognise this fact in the way it does now, and I suspect it was frequently covered up. And before anyone else does, I will immediately name the catholic church in this context.

 

Not sure of the relevance of Celtic dealing with Torbett's daughter after his conviction.

 

Ultimately I would agree with the majority of posters on this topic - I don't think fans who sing this come away with any credit, and am not sure it even achieves the goal of winding up the Celtic fans. Also does big Jock get no credit from Rangers fans for guiding the national team to 2 World Cups, dying in the act?

 

BC2 - Torbett was thrown out of the club, but was then reinstated.

 

The significane of the Trophy Centre Contracts is that Celtic and theirt board happily gave business to a man thy knew had commited child abuse and was at the time, serving a prison sentance for this crime.

 

Craig, it is not semantics - Rangers fans who sing BJK aren't singing about the act of child abuse, they are pointing out that Jock Stein knew about the abuse and DID NOTHING to stop it.

 

As for the victims, off course I feel for them, pity Celtic don't - they have still to receive an apology from the club or anyone involved with the abuse and cover up.

 

Yes it has nothing to do with ourt club, but there are plenty of songs sung that have nothing to do with Rangers - RB, GSTQ, The Bluebells, Bouncy etc - shall we stop singing them aswell?

 

Cammy F

[ascender 352]

So what are we hoping to achieve by singing this song?

 

Cammy makes some excellent points and that's the problem with this song which seems to be missed by many people. I don't think we should be singing it, but you can't argue that many of Cammy's points aren't factually correct whether you agree with them or not.

[PrideAndPassion 0]

I can't argue with some of the points, but i still feel it's is completely moronic of our fans to sing it!

[delbear 0]

i do think that if the offended parties do feel there is unresolved injustice then they should pursue it - and those horrified by what they've found about the case should support it. but it being continued by rangers supporters nowhere else than in a football match and on stupid banners is just pointless, self-congratulating, self-indulgence.

 

 

 

yeah. using someone else's misery to make your rivals look bad is pathetic. like when politicians use a death (jamie bulger's death, say) to advance their own careers (to prime ministerial success ala mr. blair).

 

 

the sheep shaggers sing about the ibrox disaster and no eye lids are batted...... We Get shit from the wan%Ers up north every game also durrant a future for a young boy shatterd yet it's just banter.....

 

We go daft about that so as barry said it is out of order but on the other hand ..... is it just " do as you are done by"?

 

 

IMO The BJK Thing hits a nerve with the MOPES over the city .... but if it was my kid involved in torbit's "shame" i'd feel a total different way.....

 

The BJK is having a go at a scumtic "leg-end" who hid the fact of it ..... or is it having a go at the actual "event".

 

 

 

Just My Ramblings on this....

 

Del.

[calscot 0]

I think it should be "do as you would have done to you," which is paraphrasing what some guy in ancient history said. All the so-called "prods" at the games should take note, considering they worship the author of the sentiment...