Scottish Sports Fans Need To Prove They Have Been Fully Vaccinated

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

52 minutes ago, Devil's advocaat said:

Can't bieve[sic] Sunetra Gupta is still kicking about, she's been discredited so many times even the BBC and their need for balance don't have her on anymore.

Feel free to make any coherent argument against the point of substance.

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

The appeal to authority shouldn't be persuasive in general.

 

How far does one need to travel through the looking glass before considering B.B.C. editorial decisions authoritative in any way?

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

The Times has a story behind a paywall reporting that vaccine passports are not being implemented this winter.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccine-passports-scrapped-for-winter-by-boris-johnson-5g2fdb2zn

 

Quote

Boris Johnson will announce this week that he is scrapping plans that would have required vaccine passports for entry to nightclubs, cinemas and sports grounds.

 

On Tuesday, the prime minister will announce plans to try to keep Covid under control over the winter. He will say that he has abandoned the proposed compulsory certification scheme, which would have forced venues to check people’s vaccine status.

 

Johnson tore up the proposals after scientists said vaccinations would be an effective first line of defence against a winter wave of the pandemic. But the move also represents a significant concession to Tory backbench rebels who had complained that enforcing vaccine passports would create a group of second-class citizens.

 

Companies that already demand proof of vaccination will be ...

The rest is behind a paywall so I have little idea of what to make of it.

 

Is this being reported elsewhere?

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

 

Sajid Javid confirming no vaccine passports for England. 

 

Is there still a group of second class citizens?

 

Anybody who lives in Scotland perhaps.

[ian1964 10,724]

I don't agree with passports! I have a hard decision to make regarding this! if I don't comply I can't get into Ibrox!!!!

[ian1964 10,724]

 

[JohnMc 2,766]

17 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

If I want to go about my life as normal.  Because I happen to attend large sporting events I can't.  I either have to sacrifice my lifestyle or my privacy. I don't think that I should have to without good cause. I'm yet to see evidence that there is a good cause.

 

Ask yourself what proportion of ~400k will catch covid.  Ask yourself what proportion of that number already have antibodies due to prior infection.  Ask yourself how many will catch covid concurrently.  Ask yourself how many will catch covid due to attending a large sporting event.  Ask yourself how many of those will have little or no risk of requiring intensive care let alone death.  Answers to each of those questions will diminish the number further until we reach the point that the violation of privacy is obviously farcical.

 

Although it is earth shattering to learn that I can vote I suspect that more is required.  None of the parties are opposed to the vaccine passport as a matter of principle.  The opposition parties have a duty to scrutinise the legislation and oppose it.  Real protection from such legislation will not come unless the electorate wakes up.  Political parties will neither uphold privacy nor leave us alone unless the electorate holds them to account. That means critique of every stupid, and unjustified, rule that is introduced. As it is the numerous feeble minded, or ignorant, souls will shrug and ask what's the problem? 

Sacrifice your privacy? Most of the population walk about with tracking devices in their pockets and freely share the most intimate information about themselves, willingly, with colossal American tech companies and advertisers everyday. But yeah, I can see why after 18 months of limitations on our movement and 1000's of deaths letting Rangers know if you've had the vaccine aimed at pulling us out of this hell is your biggest concern right now. They already have your address, your credit history and your bank details, if they wanted to destroy you they can do it already. 

 

I don't need to ask myself anything. The NHS was close to being overwhelmed every winter before Covid, if even 0.5% of those not vaccinated end up needing hospitalisation the NHS would be unable to cope.

 

There are literally thousands of people waiting for NHS treatment for non-Covid related issues currently, some of those people will die before they get it. That's before we even attempt to calculate the financial and social cost of the last 18 months. Everyone of us should be doing what we can to reduce the incidence and severity of Covid. Currently, the vast majority of professionals in the field of medicine say getting vaccinated is the best way out of this. You may disagree with them, fair enough. I'm not sure what your bacterial and immunology qualifications are, but until you're recognised for the expertise in this field you seem to think you have then the rest of us can continue to ignore you and instead listen to those who have spent their entire lives preparing for this. 

I'm old enough to remember when some people were furious that the government were insisting that motor-cyclists wear helmets. This was an invasion of their privacy, the Government had no right to tell some what they can and can't wear was the argument then. Likewise similar arguments were aired by enraged civil-libertarians when seat belt wearing was made compulsory in cars too.

 

The government has no right to involve themselves in people's lives like that, apparently. Bull shit. We don't live in a bubble, our actions have consequences and ripples that might be unintentional but they are real and long lasting all the same. If you are involved in a motorcycle accident while not wearing a helmet you are, on average, 42% more likely to die and 69% more likely to suffer a serious brain injury. Aside from the immediate trauma of the people who first arrive at the scene of the accident, there's the police and ambulance crew who'll spend hours of their time attending to you, the many, many specialist hospital staff who'll try and save your life and then slowly try and rebuild it, perhaps months of physio and rehabilitation and maybe ongoing costs if you're unable to return to work or even live it at home again. Plus there's your immediate family, friends, neighbours and colleagues who will have to deal with the fall out of your actions. 

 

Catching Covid is not without consequences. It's not just you it affects. Get over yourself, you're not actually that important in the grand scheme of things. The sooner we are able to emerge from this and return to life as we knew it the better. If that means showing Pizza Express a slip of paper when I make booking or having to deal with possibly the worst ticket office in the Scottish football then so be it. It's a small price to pay. 

[JohnMc 2,766]

17 hours ago, Blue Moon said:

What difference is a piece of paper going to make?   Double vaccinated people are catching it too.   It makes little sense to me at all.  Aside that I am fundamentally opposed to them in principle.  I also disagree with giving this dictatorial, controlling government any more power over me or anyone else.

None Christine, that's not what this is about. It's about 'encouraging' those still unvaccinated, particularly young people, to get vaccinated. I suspect the hope is there's a surge in the coming weeks of people getting vaccinated and they can then drop this entirely. It will be unpopular and difficult to enforce but then it was never actually about that anyway. 

[Gonzo79 15,294]

9 minutes ago, ian1964 said:

 

There you go, it's really just an issue of grandstanding and cannot be implemented properly.

 

There were always going to be easy ways around it anyway, for anyone with a bit of gumption.  

 

 

 

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

14 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

Sacrifice your privacy? Most of the population walk about with tracking devices in their pockets and freely share the most intimate information about themselves, willingly, with colossal American tech companies and advertisers everyday. But yeah, I can see why after 18 months of limitations on our movement and 1000's of deaths letting Rangers know if you've had the vaccine aimed at pulling us out of this hell is your biggest concern right now. They already have your address, your credit history and your bank details, if they wanted to destroy you they can do it already. 

 

I don't need to ask myself anything. The NHS was close to being overwhelmed every winter before Covid, if even 0.5% of those not vaccinated end up needing hospitalisation the NHS would be unable to cope.

 

There are literally thousands of people waiting for NHS treatment for non-Covid related issues currently, some of those people will die before they get it. That's before we even attempt to calculate the financial and social cost of the last 18 months. Everyone of us should be doing what we can to reduce the incidence and severity of Covid. Currently, the vast majority of professionals in the field of medicine say getting vaccinated is the best way out of this. You may disagree with them, fair enough. I'm not sure what your bacterial and immunology qualifications are, but until you're recognised for the expertise in this field you seem to think you have then the rest of us can continue to ignore you and instead listen to those who have spent their entire lives preparing for this. 

I'm old enough to remember when some people were furious that the government were insisting that motor-cyclists wear helmets. This was an invasion of their privacy, the Government had no right to tell some what they can and can't wear was the argument then. Likewise similar arguments were aired by enraged civil-libertarians when seat belt wearing was made compulsory in cars too.

 

The government has no right to involve themselves in people's lives like that, apparently. Bull shit. We don't live in a bubble, our actions have consequences and ripples that might be unintentional but they are real and long lasting all the same. If you are involved in a motorcycle accident while not wearing a helmet you are, on average, 42% more likely to die and 69% more likely to suffer a serious brain injury. Aside from the immediate trauma of the people who first arrive at the scene of the accident, there's the police and ambulance crew who'll spend hours of their time attending to you, the many, many specialist hospital staff who'll try and save your life and then slowly try and rebuild it, perhaps months of physio and rehabilitation and maybe ongoing costs if you're unable to return to work or even live it at home again. Plus there's your immediate family, friends, neighbours and colleagues who will have to deal with the fall out of your actions. 

 

Catching Covid is not without consequences. It's not just you it affects. Get over yourself, you're not actually that important in the grand scheme of things. The sooner we are able to emerge from this and return to life as we knew it the better. If that means showing Pizza Express a slip of paper when I make booking or having to deal with possibly the worst ticket office in the Scottish football then so be it. It's a small price to pay. 

It's hardly informative for you to restate your support for vaccine passports without any supporting argument.

 

One is left wondering why so many words are required.