Does the SNP have a Rangers problem?

[der Berliner 3,749]

If you care to look, modern day capitalism in all its incarnations is or can be as rubbish as most socialist "regimes" are made to look. And read the Communist Manifest to get any idea how communism shall look, no matter what incarnations have come of it.

[Gonzo79 15,294]

Veering needlessly off-topic here.

 

It isn't a right or left issue at all.  There are left and right wing unionists and left and right wing nationalists.

[RANGERRAB 3,680]

22 hours ago, JohnMc said:

I've a Romanian friend who I've got to know fairly well over the years. We found ourselves talking about politics one day and I asked about her memories of living under Ceaușescu and his hated Communist regime prior to the fall of the Iron Curtain. I knew what had happened to him but I was curious what happened to the thousands of others who were party members, supporters and politicians after the revolution. She simply shrugged and said "they became democrats", the same people stayed in power they just did it under a different name. 

 

As a Glaswegian I can honestly say I've seen no discernible difference in my local politicians since the SNP replaced Labour as the dominant party in the city. They are basically the same, they just have a different colour rosette. When Labour ran the city and the country there weren't many of their politicians pinning Rangers colours to the mast, but there seemed to be plenty happy to sport green and white and a surprisingly high number of Thistle supporters. Now the SNP run the city and the country it's the same thing. 

 

I don't have a particular problem with Murdo Fraser's article other than he's a politician himself and, for me, is clearly hoping it might garner him, and his party, some support. Judging by this thread he might be right too. I'm fairly cynical of his motives though. I don't think he's hoping a couple of SNP MSPs will 'out themselves' as bluenoses, or that Bute House will arrange a civic reception for Gerrard. I worry this is simply another salvo in the ongoing 'culture wars' that make up modern politics these days. In the end there's probably no other subject Fraser could have written about that would have created as much response, that's a very sad inditement on our society currently. 

 

In my experience nobody is going to have their political mindset changed by posters on a Rangers message board and so I have no intention of trying to alter any of my fellow posters deeply held political views. I have very few deeply held political views as it happens. In the last 20 or so years that I've posted on various Rangers related message boards the lack of political support the club and fans seem to have is a fairly regular topic. I actually do think it's an important topic. We all know that there are Rangers supporters in the SNP, just as there were in Scottish Labour back in the day, however they largely hide it. 

For me that's what needs addressed, a proper understanding of why openly supporting Rangers seems to be politically toxic and has been for a long time now. 

 

For work and now family reasons I'm a regular visitor to Ireland. Although I lived in Northern Ireland when based there I visited the Republic a lot and was initially wary saying I supported Rangers when conversation turned to football. I'd quickly discovered that certain assumptions were made about me when my football allegiances were known. It was assumed I was an Orangeman, I was a Loyalist and I was a bigot. I realised that most people there had never actually met a Rangers supporter, they'd a stereotype in their head from footage of rioting in Loyalist Belfast or Portadown, a basic understanding of the Glasgow football/religion split and perhaps some overheard song lyrics during a live match on Sky. After a few months I realised I was as much to blame for this stereotype as the disaffected youth covering his face with a red, white and blue bar scarf as he stones the police during a contentious parade in north Belfast. I'm not an Orangeman, or a Loyalist and I try not to be a bigot and yet I'm a huge Rangers fan. So I stopped down playing my football support and let people make their own minds up about Rangers supporters based on their interactions with me instead.

 

Like supporters of all clubs the Rangers support is broad and complicated. We all agree on very little, we hold different views on most subjects and, I believe, for the majority of our support who we want to win a football match has little bearing on who we vote for. I also understand that for some people supporting Rangers is an extension of their political belief system. For them it's an intrinsic part of their identity and belonging. That's fair enough and I don't get to tell them they're wrong to hold those views. At the same time they don't get to tell people they're wrong for holding different ones. 

 

I enjoyed my time living in Northern Ireland, it's a beautiful part of the world and I found the people there friendly and welcoming. I didn't care for their politics or politicians though. The politics of identity were dominant there then and remain so. I see shadows of that in the rest of the UK now. The rise of nationalism isn't just confined to Scotland. In my opinion Murdo Fraser's party are nationalist now, just a different type of nationalist. That's my political opinion and I don't expect anyone else to share it simply because we support the same football team. 

It’s an attempt by Murdo Fraser to stop Rangers supporters voting SNP.

how successful it is remains to be seen

[Bill 13,717]

2 hours ago, RANGERRAB said:

It’s an attempt by Murdo Fraser to stop Rangers supporters voting SNP.

how successful it is remains to be seen

In that case it’s long overdue

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

5 hours ago, der Berliner said:

If you care to look, modern day capitalism in all its incarnations is or can be as rubbish as most socialist "regimes" are made to look. And read the Communist Manifest to get any idea how communism shall look, no matter what incarnations have come of it.

I think you are wrong about the first point and I can't make any sense of the second point.

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

11 hours ago, Bluedell said:

... It's a sad indictment of the Rangers support when a politician does something positive for us and is met with claims of cynicism. ...

Quite.

 

Some need to get priorities straight.

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

5 hours ago, Bill said:

I've read your post twice and still haven't a clue what point you're making. To be honest, I've slightly less than zero interest in Germany, other than it's repeated inability to stay out of other European countries, so that might be holding me back. I don't suppose you have a short version.

I often wonder if the length of comments, in here, is in inverse proportion to the substance.

[Gonzo79 15,294]

3 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

I often wonder if the length of comments, in here, is in inverse proportion to the substance.

Buster is preparing a 5k word thesis to counter this theory.  

[Bill 13,717]

5 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

Veering needlessly off-topic here.

 

It isn't a right or left issue at all.  There are left and right wing unionists and left and right wing nationalists.

But not necessarily in equal proportions.

[der Berliner 3,749]

4 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

I think you are wrong about the first point and I can't make any sense of the second point.

Both a pretty straight forward suggestions and not that hard to grasp.

Quote

I often wonder if the length of comments, in here, is in inverse proportion to the substance.

 

I often wonder if the length of comments, in here, is showing a direct proportion of understanding the topic.