Gerrard and the European Super League

[Rousseau 10,604]

15 hours ago, Bill said:

I get all of that except the bit at the centre. What is "progress" and exactly how does it make us "better". What's our objective - to win the CL six times in a row ... or once ... or just to qualify for CL group stages ... or to with the SPFL title ... or just to avoid a repetition of the last ten years? Is it to have a better stadium, or to play better opposition or play in a more prestigious league? How do we measure progress? If progress means getting £120m in TV money every year but to succeed on the park we still have to run at a loss and lifelong fans are priced out of watching their team ... is that still progress?

Yes, please.  

 

But, those are better defined as success. The money is a means to an end.

 

Progress is to be better than we are now: competing against better sides, acquiring better players ourselves, and ultimately challenging for PL and European titles. 

 

But, you are right: it's vague, it's subjective, or certainly something that evolves... but, We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious.   

[Bill 13,717]

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

Yes, please.  

 

But, those are better defined as success. The money is a means to an end.

 

Progress is to be better than we are now: competing against better sides, acquiring better players ourselves, and ultimately challenging for PL and European titles. 

 

But, you are right: it's vague, it's subjective, or certainly something that evolves... but, We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious.   

All the evidence suggests that sustainable success in football is the exclusive preserve of the top dozen or so clubs from only five countries, funded by debt or private wealth and underpinned by preferential access to lucrative tournaments. For everyone else, a seat at the top table is almost always accompanied by rapid financial collapse and a prolonged spell in obscurity.

 

One thing our own troubles have brought home to me is that football is rigged in almost every way, inside and out, and that the temptation of riches and success is, in fact, an impossible dream, designed only to provide a platform for very few to parade on.

 

So, progress? Success? In my opinion, We already have huge success and reassuringly few prawn sandwiches involved. I think there’s a better path and it doesn’t involve sacrificing everything to take it.

[Rousseau 10,604]

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

All the evidence suggests that sustainable success in football is the exclusive preserve of the top dozen or so clubs from only five countries, funded by debt or private wealth and underpinned by preferential access to lucrative tournaments. For everyone else, a seat at the top table is almost always accompanied by rapid financial collapse and a prolonged spell in obscurity.

 

One thing our own troubles have brought home to me is that football is rigged in almost every way, inside and out, and that the temptation of riches and success is, in fact, an impossible dream, designed only to provide a platform for very few to parade on.

 

So, progress? Success? In my opinion, We already have huge success and reassuringly few prawn sandwiches involved. I think there’s a better path and it doesn’t involve sacrificing everything to take it.

What's the better path?

[Bill 13,717]

1 minute ago, Rousseau said:

What's the better path?

 

1 minute ago, Rousseau said:

What's the better path?

 

1 minute ago, Rousseau said:

What's the better path?

Heard you the first time ?

 

The better path is to enjoy your club simply because it’s your club, whatever league it plays in. Because what I think you’re defining as progress and success is, in fact, unattainable. It’s now all but impossible to compete for the big prizes. That’s a closed shop. Either rethink what success means or commit to failure. Unless things change (and they won’t), success for us will be trophies at home and occasional opportunities to test ourselves against others in the same situation abroad. Enjoy.

[Tannochsidebear 2,406]

28 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

 

Heard you the first time ?

 

The better path is to enjoy your club simply because it’s your club, whatever league it plays in. Because what I think you’re defining as progress and success is, in fact, unattainable. It’s now all but impossible to compete for the big prizes. That’s a closed shop. Either rethink what success means or commit to failure. Unless things change (and they won’t), success for us will be trophies at home and occasional opportunities to test ourselves against others in the same situation abroad. Enjoy.

Spot on. This is about as successful a season as we can expect. Yes we could have had a domestic treble, or possibly have got one round further in the Europa, but an unbeaten triumphant league campaign coupled with qualifying for, then winning our Europa group, and winning a knock out round for a club of our budget is at the top end of the range of realistic ambition. If we can sell a player and balance our books for the year as well that would be sensational.
 

For next season it is to retain the title, qualify for the group stages of the CL and, depending on the luck of the draw, try to get 3rd place and into the last 32 of the Europa. That would be a successful season in my book. 

[Rousseau 10,604]

It's seems the majority are content to remain a big fish in a small pond. Fair enough. 

 

I retain a dream of expanding into a bigger pond. I think with our fan base and stature, we have so much more potential. 

 

Success is measured on the European stage. The Scottish league is a joke: Celtic just won 8.75 in-a-row, but what's that worth? 

 

The sum of our ambition is to get into the group stages of the CL--and that's peak success. This season has been stupendous, but in the grand scheme of things it's still the second tier European competition. 

 

I think if we were in a bigger pond we'd go further. 

 

To be honest, though, that could be as part of a better Scottish league--if we somehow managed to become a better league, with better football, producing better players etc., which seems... unlikely.  

[Devil's advocaat 1,541]

Bill, absolutely spot on sir. ??

[alexscottislegend 2,320]

2 hours ago, Rousseau said:

It's seems the majority are content to remain a big fish in a small pond. Fair enough. 

 

I retain a dream of expanding into a bigger pond. I think with our fan base and stature, we have so much more potential. 

 

Success is measured on the European stage. The Scottish league is a joke: Celtic just won 8.75 in-a-row, but what's that worth? 

 

The sum of our ambition is to get into the group stages of the CL--and that's peak success. This season has been stupendous, but in the grand scheme of things it's still the second tier European competition. 

 

I think if we were in a bigger pond we'd go further. 

 

To be honest, though, that could be as part of a better Scottish league--if we somehow managed to become a better league, with better football, producing better players etc. which seems... unlikely.  

That's what has surprised and disappointed me. Maybe you have to live outside of Scotland to realise how the Scottish League is viewed. I always want us to win in Europe because that way we can be measured against the super clubs and gain respect. I remember when Butcher and Woods and the other 'anglos' were signed, the consternation, bile and envy which poured out down here about how the best players were leaving England; I could walk round with a smile on my face telling folk I was a supporter of the biggest club in Britain (forget, Man. U - that was us, at least for a short while.) I always thought there was a parochial attitude in Glasgow where beating - or finishing above Celtic - was regarded as more important than anything done outside our own back yard. You got no respect down here because only 'two teams ever win the Scottish League.' Thankfully Souness and Gerrard have gone some way towards readjusting that perspective.

 

It's also odd that so many on here are so proud of being a British club, yet are reluctant to see us become part of a British League.

Edited April 24, 2021 by alexscottislegend

[Bill 13,717]

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

I think if we were in a bigger pond we'd go further. 

All of which is fine and aspirational ... and certainly sounds good. Except it isn't attainable and the price of trying is higher than anyone is prepared to pay. 

 

Look around you, those are tired old propositions that fly in the face of the reality around us. If those are really your conditions for supporting Rangers - playing in a better league, CL regulars, up with the ESL group - then there will be very little enjoyment ahead. It's one thing to dream but when you wake up it's best to stop dreaming.

[Rousseau 10,604]

5 minutes ago, Bill said:

All of which is fine and aspirational ... and certainly sounds good. Except it isn't attainable and the price of trying is higher than anyone is prepared to pay. 

 

Look around you, those are tired old propositions that fly in the face of the reality around us. If those are really your conditions for supporting Rangers - playing in a better league, CL regulars, up with the ESL group - then there will be very little enjoyment ahead. It's one thing to dream but when you wake up it's best to stop dreaming.

What's the price of trying? No trophies in the immediate future? If that is really your conditions for supporting Rangers, then you're not much of a fan...  

 

We'll need to agree to disagree.