Diversity and Inclusion Charter

[stewarty 2,025]

40 minutes ago, Gaffer said:

I am sure I remember when they all wheeled out their experts who said that not only were face masks useless, they would actually be dangerous.  Or did I dream that?  I think these are the experts bill is talking about.  Or maybe it's the experts at the WHO who said this was not serious at all.  Then after lobbying these experts are now changing their opinions.  Funny that.  It would be educational to look back at those interviews but I doubt many will do that.

 

According to some on here, COVID is also a cure for other health conditions.  It's cured flu completely (ONS statistics), and now very few people die with heart disease or stroke (ONS statistics).  It's a miracle.  Nothing to see here.  It's also amazing that lockdown actually increased the death rate (ONS official figures again).  Anyone want to dispute that?  I won't wear a mask.  It's not selfish, it's just called being smart (in my opinion).  I think wearing a mask is stupid, useless, and still causes the same dangers we were warned about when the experts explained why they would do nothing to prevent the spread of this or any other virus.  Selective memories, or short ones being demonstrated on here.

 

I do however realise it's pointless because there has been a brilliant effort to brainwash the masses into believing the official story and that's proven on here.  It's funny that Rousseau said I had made some pretty big statements and where was the evidence.  I just wish that same question had been asked of the governments and officials when they locked us down, removed freedoms, and killed thousands of people as a result of their actions.  Nope, there was no demand for evidence then, we just went along with it.  Not me!

 

Anyway, I just came on to send a couple of private messages and realise I should not have re-engaged.  I've really enjoyed my time on Gersnet.  Hopefully the one thing we do agree on (seeing a successful Rangers team) can be realised this season.  I wish you all and yours the very best.

There has been alot of criticism about the politicisation of expert advice by the government who in some cases appear to have ignored a number of warnings and recommendations presented to them by their own advisors through SAGE.  

The makeup and transparency of SAGE has been criticised - with many saying that they did not have a sufficient public health focus at least initially.

 

One group who have consistently questions the government's approach even formed their own independent SAGE, who met and publicised their expert opinions on the data and what recommendations they would make in response.  In turn this appears to have somewhat influenced some government decisions but there remains a lot of disagreement because the government isn't or hasn't followed key areas of recommendation for political and economic reasons of their choosing.

 

I understand you are going through a difficult time, as many others are, but suggesting the Covid-19 is a hoax is not credible.   You've made some false assertions in this post too about curing  other diseases, although I do agree that there is a very real public health hangover to come once the health service gets back to a more normal footing, with all manner of screenings, tests, operations and diseases that are potentially under reported. 

 

But whilst I'm critical about elements of the approach we have taken in the UK (personally I think we should have acted sooner and more strongly at a number of stages), to not have taken the action they did with the likes of the temporary hospitals and putting the NHS on somewhat of a war footing and everyone into lockdown, things would have been far far worse and many more people than yourself would be going through a similar time

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by stewarty

[stewarty 2,025]

34 minutes ago, Bill said:

Ok so let’s all agree on something. How about “There are lots of non-experts around so therefore there are no experts at all”. Or let’s try another one - “experts sometimes get it wrong, therefore experts never get it right”. See how clever we can be when we try really hard. 
 

The point of experts isn’t to tell you the answers to everything and make decisions for you. It’s to provide informed opinion so you can reach better decisions yourself. It all goes tits up when you mix these things up. 

Agreed.  The scientific method is designed to enable people to disagree, and for our understanding of our existence to be enhanced by it over time.

[JohnMc 2,750]

Well now, this thread's taken an unexpected turn since I last visited.

 

So if Covid 19 is a global hoax, who is behind it and why?

 

I lost a friend to Covid 19, he didn't have any underlying health issues beforehand, his death was sudden and shocking. Three other family friends also died of it, they were older and did have underlying health issues. They all lived in the same small town, two in a care home, and the virus swept through taking the lives of a number of older people in a short space of time. I guess I'm struggling to accept it doesn't exist or is in fact just your normal winter flu. But I'm fascinated to see your workings on this @Gaffer and trying to remain open-minded. You're not stupid so you must understand why posts as incendiary as yours have created reactions ranging from disbelief to anger. No one likes being called a fool, and that's what you're inferring we all are. I'm fairly cynical and hold a high degree of scepticism towards politicians but even I'm struggling to accept Boris Johnson and his cabinet and advisors are covering up thousands of deaths, ruining the economy and upsetting millions of voters on purpose and that he's managed to get Nicola Sturgeon and the Irish Taoiseach in on it with him. 

 

[Uilleam 5,929]

In the first reel of almost every disaster movie, somebody, often a government figure, ignores  a scientist. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Uilleam

[forlanssister 3,114]

On 13/07/2020 at 13:22, alexscottislegend said:

Their message is that you cannot eliminate racism without confronting the question of capitalism, so embedded is it in its culture. You can interpret that as my view or that of my view of BLM if you like. BLM is still atm an organisation without a clear defined leadership, certainly not a political party.

Given their unbridled anti-semitism it's no surprise to see you leading the cheerleading for them on here.

 

Plus ca change and all that.

[forlanssister 3,114]

On 13/07/2020 at 12:12, alexscottislegend said:

I know it is. Same with all mass movements even if they don't know it. But if you can't be selective about racism what can you be selective about?

Black = good

 

Jew = bad

 

That selective?

[compo 7,030]

52 minutes ago, Uilleam said:

In the first reel of almost every disaster movie, somebody, often a government figure, ignores  a scientist. 

The a man and woman who are separated with two weans save the day 

[compo 7,030]

I see Andrew Neil is getting the old sailors farewell, the old heave ho .

[forlanssister 3,114]

1 hour ago, stewarty said:

There has been alot of criticism about the politicisation of expert advice by the government who in some cases appear to have ignored a number of warnings and recommendations presented to them by their own advisors through SAGE.  

The makeup and transparency of SAGE has been criticised - with many saying that they did not have a sufficient public health focus at least initially.

 

One group who have consistently questions the government's approach even formed their own independent SAGE, who met and publicised their expert opinions on the data and what recommendations they would make in response.  In turn this appears to have somewhat influenced some government decisions but there remains a lot of disagreement because the government isn't or hasn't followed key areas of recommendation for political and economic reasons of their choosing.

 

I understand you are going through a difficult time, as many others are, but suggesting the Covid-19 is a hoax is not credible.   You've made some false assertions in this post too about curing  other diseases, although I do agree that there is a very real public health hangover to come once the health service gets back to a more normal footing, with all manner of screenings, tests, operations and diseases that are potentially under reported. 

 

But whilst I'm critical about elements of the approach we have taken in the UK (personally I think we should have acted sooner and more strongly at a number of stages), to not have taken the action they did with the likes of the temporary hospitals and putting the NHS on somewhat of a war footing and everyone into lockdown, things would have been far far worse and many more people than yourself would be going through a similar time

 

 

You're usually better informed than that.

 

That's little more than a bunch of ASIL's fellow travellers who still can't accept that the country told them and Corbyn to just f*&k off!

 

https://order-order.com/2020/05/04/not-independent-activist-stuffed-shadow-sage/

 

https://order-order.com/tag/independent-sage/

[forlanssister 3,114]

Whilst not agreeing with everything in Gaffers posts in this thread I do find plenty of merit in them as despite the best efforts of the left as far as I'm aware it's not yet illegal to hold a contrarian view.

 

I've spent 13 of the last 14 weeks in hospital due to infections the last week in the infectious diseases ward. I almost died because of this Covid 19 and yet I've never had it. I was misdiagnosed over the phone by NHS 24 at the onset of the outbreak here as having Covid 19 and told to isolate for a fortnight and take paracetamol to control my temperature. After a week the paracetamol ceased to work and my temperature was over 40 degrees, finally a nurse practitioner came out to see me and sent me straight to hospital where they diagnosed sepsis and 3 different bacterial infections which resulted in over 280 iv antibiotic infusions plus 2 single antibiotic infusions that cost over £1600 each. Got home for a week only to be rushed back in with a different infection and yet more iv antibiotics and now face a minimum 6 month course of antibiotic pills and at least 6 months probably 9 of complete bed rest, basically robbing me of a whole year of the few I have left. Nearly killed by the hysteria over Covid 19, I suspect there will be many thousands with similar tales with many no longer here to tell them.

 

One of the doctors who initially treated had had Covid 19 and in his case he said that he'd had worse "normal flus". He said the policy of clearing hospital beds had probably killed and will continue to kill for many years far more people than it saved, he pointed out the hysteria over ventilators and said he was unaware of a single Covid 19 death caused by a lack of ventilators in the UK. He was equally critical of both UK and Scottish Governments and said despite the rhetoric there wasn't a fag paper between the policies of both, said a mass fully functional test and trace system would have been of far more assistance in controlling the disease that the hot potch that transpired. Interestingly he said to watch out for the long term results from the Swedish model over the next few years compared to elsewhere he thought the Swedes would come out of it better longer term. Without a vaccine he says it has to be herd immunity (blames the panic that causes on an ignorant media propagating misconceptions) or the virus dies out naturally. 

 

Don't get me wrong Covid 19 is real, very real but the consequences caused by the virus will prove more far more dangerous and long lasting than the virus itself. Little comfort to those of you who have lost family or friends to it I know.

 

There hasn't been any recorded cases in Grampian in a month but as I was waiting to be discharged on Monday they were preparing 2 rooms for 2 suspected cases.