Trust Delegation Meets with Sir David Murray

[ascender 352]

Yeah and buying SPL players has been our downfall to becoming average IMO. The Scottish game has went so far backwards in the last 10 years. The other SPL clubs cant ever compete in europe (we've seen that) yet we are buying there players. Just coz they do well in SPL matches against each other doesnt mean they can step up to the next level and put Rangers where we should be.

 

Ive said it repeatedly - having 1 or 2 of the better SPL players is fine but having a team full means I expect the continued rank football we have seen over the last 2 years.

 

Personally I think its been the influx of crap foreign players which has been our downfall. Since the real quality players left under DA, we've been wasting our money on foreign talent and its just been downhill from there.

 

I think that since WS took the Scotland job and other clubs outwith the OF started giving youth a chance again, our game has been on the rise again, both domestically and at international level.

 

Besides, the SPL is our bread and butter, so winning that again should be our first priority. Having suffered through the last couple of seasons, can things really get any worse for us?

[Wija 0]

He feels they have dealt very well with the media - what fooking planet is he on?

 

Strongly commited to invest short and long term - when?

 

Branding - Down here any JJB shop has C____c tops on show and they are high up and also at least 3 or 4 racks with them on... Only usually 1 rack of Gers tops, away from all the others..

 

Absolute bollox.

 

Fcuk off and retire SDM.

[Super_Ally 0]

He is more comfortable as a midfield player rather than right back - Hibs use him as a right back, but played right midfield thro the ranks at Easter Road.

 

Cammy F

 

 

Fair do's. I'd always considered him a RB first and RM second as that's where i'm used to seeing him play. Obviously just filling in there and doing a job.

[Gribz 850]

I agree Re the Scottish vs foreign players too. I know what you are saying Gribz but our recent downfall has been spending too much on johnny foreigner who doesn't give a shit. Mladenovic, Capucho, Ostenstad - you would prefer to have them back as opposed to proven SPL players ? Don't forget those foreigners also needed paying off which impacts on cash available for spending on transfer fees.

 

Im not denying some of the foreigners have been absolute gash and part of the downfall, but we still won trophies up until 2 years ago. But half of the foreigners entered a split dressing room and were played in baffling positions. A few of them come in with good backgrounds but it we turned them into bad players. And the management have to take responsibility for their signings.

 

But its not just the foreigners, its most of our signings whether foreign or Scottish. They are all just becoming a lower standard so the foreign v scottish argument goes out the window.

 

Foreigners, not Scots, has put us where we are.

 

Again, cant agree with this, its a combination of both. McLeish and Watson are Scottish, they are responsible for season 05/06 same as PLG is foreign and responsible for 06/07. Players like Gavin Rae and Ian Murray are Scottish while players like Sionko and Svensson are foreign.

 

So for everyone to just turn round and say its purely the foreigners fault is way off.

 

There has been 4 or 5 players who have stood out and carried Rangers in the last few years and made the difference between being 2nd and average - Ferguson, Hutton, Hemdani and Prso - a mixture of Scots and foreign.

 

Its the STANDARD of player at fault and NOT there nationality. We all know how bad the standard of football in is Scotland and we are signing them.

 

Christ Dunfermline got knocked out of europe by nobodies from Iceland or Latvia last year. (cant remember they were that bad)

Gretna (now a SPL team) got thumped by Derry.

Hearts were an embarrassment in Europe.

Aberdeen have sold a regular player to Yeovil Town this year. (Is that the same standard to SPL?)

I dont the the figure but about 1 out of 25 SPL players move to the EPL these days and they are probably foreign.

 

Will the Scots get us competitive in Scotland again ? I think they will. Will they get us competitive in Europe ? Maybe, maybe not - but some of the signings will be squad fillers (Broadfoot for example is a squad filler at least for the time being).

 

I think it will be Smith and McCoist who get us competitive again or more to the point make an effort. Had the same group of players been under Le Guen then Im not so sure. They have installed morale and confidence into the team and bought players who know what playing for Rangers is all about.

[craig 5,199]

Im not denying some of the foreigners have been absolute gash and part of the downfall, but we still won trophies up until 2 years ago. But half of the foreigners entered a split dressing room and were played in baffling positions. A few of them come in with good backgrounds but it we turned them into bad players. And the management have to take responsibility for their signings.

 

But its not just the foreigners, its most of our signings whether foreign or Scottish. They are all just becoming a lower standard so the foreign v scottish argument goes out the window.

 

 

 

 

Again, cant agree with this, its a combination of both. McLeish and Watson are Scottish, they are responsible for season 05/06 same as PLG is foreign and responsible for 06/07. Players like Gavin Rae and Ian Murray are Scottish while players like Sionko and Svensson are foreign.

 

So for everyone to just turn round and say its purely the foreigners fault is way off.

 

There has been 4 or 5 players who have stood out and carried Rangers in the last few years and made the difference between being 2nd and average - Ferguson, Hutton, Hemdani and Prso - a mixture of Scots and foreign.

 

Its the STANDARD of player at fault and NOT there nationality. We all know how bad the standard of football in is Scotland and we are signing them.

 

 

Christ Dunfermline got knocked out of europe by nobodies from Iceland or Latvia last year. (cant remember they were that bad)

Gretna (now a SPL team) got thumped by Derry.

Hearts were an embarrassment in Europe.

Aberdeen have sold a regular player to Yeovil Town this year. (Is that the same standard to SPL?)

I dont the the figure but about 1 out of 25 SPL players move to the EPL these days and they are probably foreign.

 

 

 

I think it will be Smith and McCoist who get us competitive again or more to the point make an effort. Had the same group of players been under Le Guen then Im not so sure. They have installed morale and confidence into the team and bought players who know what playing for Rangers is all about.

 

But YOU were the one saying that signing SPL players was the reason for our downfall - we haven't signed many SPL players that are foreign have we ? There are many, many players we have signed in recent years who have come from foreign leagues and been part of our demise - how many SPL signings have we made that have been part of our demise ? Not that many I would have thought.

 

Your first paragraph suggests that it isn't the players fault at all but the management and playing them out of position, turning good players into bad players.

 

So what is it to be causing our downfall ? SPL players ? Scottish players ? Foreign players ? Bad management ? All of the above ? IMO it is a mix of all of them. But you have been focussing purely on the likes of Gow, Broadfoot etc as not being good enough - yet these players are proven in the SPL - I would rather go with tried and tested than unknown quantities (ala Sebo..).

 

I agree that Sebo could come good - but he is a good example in your case Gribz.... you want him to get a chance but he has NEVER done anything to suggest he warrants it - he is a striker and "played well" against the Tims, but playing well meant running around like a headless chicken and bringing ZERO goal threat. And at the same time you lambast the only player we have who will consistently put the ball in the net for us.

 

So whilst you may be right that blaming just the foreigners might be way off - so too is your argument that it is SPL players to blame (although it would be interesting to see just how many Scots have featured for us in the last 2 barren seasons - last season we saw a few but the season before there weren't many Scots in the team).

 

You talk about being embarassments in Europe - are you forgetting the days when we had expensive foreign players during WS 1st stint and STILL WE were embarassments in Europe too ?

 

Foreigners do not guarantee you success and neither do Scots. But WS has beefed his squad up with players who WANT to play for us, who cost us little and who have proven themselves in the SPL and I won't blame him for doing that.

[Super_Ally 0]

Well said craig.

 

WHilst you cannot pinpoint one reason for the decrease in performance, it was Gribz who tried to lump the balem at the foot of SPL players when everyone else was putting teh counter arguement that foreign flops have been a greater reason.

[Gribz 850]

But YOU were the one saying that signing SPL players was the reason for our downfall - we haven't signed many SPL players that are foreign have we ? There are many, many players we have signed in recent years who have come from foreign leagues and been part of our demise - how many SPL signings have we made that have been part of our demise ? Not that many I would have thought.

 

YOUR being too picky. SPL players are not the ONLY reason but certainly part of it. Of course foreigners who havent performed are the reason aswell. But signing average run of the mill SPL players is easy one of the reasons. I could pick out a few but I'll go for the most popular - Kris Boyd is one of the worst footballers ive ever seen. He goes 4 games without touching the ball then bags a couple of goals and is everyone favourite son. When he plays upfront on his own we may aswell have 10 men on the pitch as he brings nothing to the team. Its during that 4 games when he isnt scoring that we are dropping points and falling behind in the league.

 

Your first paragraph suggests that it isn't the players fault at all but the management and playing them out of position, turning good players into bad players.

Again YOUR being too picky. If you ask me the direct question who / what is responsible then we'll be here all day discussing things from bad tactics, poor players, bad management decisions and the chairman and his puppet.

 

So what is it to be causing our downfall ? SPL players ? Scottish players ? Foreign players ? Bad management ? All of the above ? IMO it is a mix of all of them. But you have been focussing purely on the likes of Gow, Broadfoot etc as not being good enough - yet these players are proven in the SPL - I would rather go with tried and tested than unknown quantities (ala Sebo..).

 

Kinda answered above, but on the park, everything you have stated in that paragraph is responsible. Im glad you think its a mix of them all as we can agree on that. But previously YOU said it was purely the foreigners but you didnt see me pick this out and take it for gospel.

 

If you read some of my other posts ive said i have a feeling Gow could be a good squad player for us, so i havent been concentrating on him at all. The thought of him and Broadfoot doesnt excite me but i wont pre-judge them, its more the players we have bought or been linked to that I'll have my opinion on. They may be proven in the SPL but once again the SPL is a poor league. You just have to see any of the SPL teams up against foreign opposition from lower countries and realise that the standard is probably on par with Estonia, yet because we see Motherwell battle with Falkirk on a regular basis we cant see how bad the scottish game is. The scottish viewer is living in the past imo and in a perception that our league isnt too bad a level. Yes the best of us can give teams a game on there day but on a week to week basis its poor.

 

I agree that Sebo could come good - but he is a good example in your case Gribz.... you want him to get a chance but he has NEVER done anything to suggest he warrants it - he is a striker and "played well" against the Tims, but playing well meant running around like a headless chicken and bringing ZERO goal threat. And at the same time you lambast the only player we have who will consistently put the ball in the net for us.

 

How can you say Sebo isnt a good example? How can he not warrant getting a chance? What does he have to do to warrant a chance except knuckle down in training, show a good attitude and work hard - which he does. I dont buy this comment on him running around like a headless chicken. He was playing upfront on his own, but i suppose he could have done the Boyd thing and stood about waiting for the ball to come to him rather than getting stuck into 4 defenders and try to win us the ball. That was in the game at parkhead - yet at Ibrox he came off the bench and had 3 one-on-ones in about 20 mins and came clse to scoring on each occassion.

 

You talk about being embarassments in Europe - are you forgetting the days when we had expensive foreign players during WS 1st stint and STILL WE were embarassments in Europe too ?

 

I wasnt saying we were embarrassments in europe above - I was getting at the other SPL clubs when they play in europe. This was when i was making referrence to how bad the SPL is.

[Gribz 850]

 

WHilst you cannot pinpoint one reason for the decrease in performance, it was Gribz who tried to lump the balem at the foot of SPL players when everyone else was putting teh counter arguement that foreign flops have been a greater reason.

 

Contradiced yourself here have you not? One minute you say you cant pinpoint the demise yet then you suggest it was the foreign flops. Yet its only me who gets stood out for picking out the SPL players even though I say they are part of it.

 

At the end of the day its a mix of things and our buys whether foreign or scottish just havent been good enough over the years. Im all for scottish players if they are good enough but the ones we are linked with have been a joke - I mean FFS Jamie Langfield, 1.5m for Whittaker........

 

Id rather see us going for the BEST scottish players like, Gordon, McFadden, Anderson (ahead of Broadfoot), McCulloch (which we got), Quashie (not so much now), O Connor and blend them with S Smith, Hutton, Webster, Ferguson.

[Super_Ally 0]

Contradiced yourself here have you not? One minute you say you cant pinpoint the demise yet then you suggest it was the foreign flops. Yet its only me who gets stood out for picking out the SPL players even though I say they are part of it.

 

At the end of the day its a mix of things and our buys whether foreign or scottish just havent been good enough over the years. Im all for scottish players if they are good enough but the ones we are linked with have been a joke - I mean FFS Jamie Langfield, 1.5m for Whittaker........

 

Id rather see us going for the BEST scottish players like, Gordon, McFadden, Anderson (ahead of Broadfoot), McCulloch (which we got), Quashie (not so much now), O Connor and blend them with S Smith, Hutton, Webster, Ferguson.

 

 

Suprised you could decipher what I'd written there. That was some bad typing.

 

Not going to bother keeping the argument going as i think we've all come to the agreement that it's a lower standard of player (regardless of nationality) that we've had to come to accept. Just a sad indictment of the current Murray regime.

[Gribz 850]

Suprised you could decipher what I'd written there. That was some bad typing.

 

Not going to bother keeping the argument going as i think we've all come to the agreement that it's a lower standard of player (regardless of nationality) that we've had to come to accept. Just a sad indictment of the current Murray regime.

 

No probs, but its good to discuss