SPFL Season declaration challenged legally (ongoing discussion)

[ranger_syntax 4,321]

Fascinating to see that The Daily Mail mention Doncaster but omit McKenzie.

[buster. 5,186]

A month of lockdown has pushed me back to the messageboards ? but what the F is going on in the world of Scottish fitbaw ?

 

I´d followed the headlines without looking at the detail until Saturday when the howitzer was fired !

 

What is our endgame wrt what we want out of this ?

and what are the chances of achieving it or at least enough of it so as to make it all worth it ?

 

I note the SPFL now pushing a mediatic defence of their position ahead of their next move, which won´t be to open an independent investigation. Teflon Doncaster, ShiftyMcGinty  and the overweight lawyer will probably look to take the initiative and fudge a solution that clubs will be happier with and carry on regardless.

 

If more or less so (including no investigation), ...what do we do (including the whistleblower evidence) ?

 

 

[Gonzo79 15,293]

18 minutes ago, buster. said:

What is our endgame wrt what we want out of this ?

and what are the chances of achieving it or at least enough of it so as to make it all worth it ?

We want Scottish football to be run fairly.  We want a sensible decision to be made regarding the conclusion of this season.

 

Chances of achieving these goals are slim but we have to keep trying, otherwise what's the point?

[buster. 5,186]

On 21/03/2020 at 11:30, buster. said:

In the event of an incompleted season, it looks as if they will be handed the title.

If this course of action is connected to ensuring payouts from sponsers etc. then it´s probable.

 

The issue switches to does this gifted title count as 9IAR ?....and the obvious answer is that it can´t.

 

This is what will have to be strongly pushed at all levels that the club and the support can.

 

 

The title that never was

 

It now looks very probable that the League season will remain incompleted and I still believe that no matter what we do, Celtic will ultimately declared as winners. The campaign to undermine that potential and probable outcome should have publicly started way before Alastair Johnson talked about 8 and a half and not IMO initially by a board member of the club.

 

If the present and ongoing battle can bring real change to the SPFL power structure then good, it will have been worth it.

Otherwise, I´m struggling to see what we´ll get out of it.

 

That said, the whistleblower evidence, if revealed, might or might not change the whole scenario.

 

 

 

[Doc 280]

8 hours ago, ian1964 said:

Dundee chief John Nelms prepares to push for league reconstruction guarantee in bid to end SPFL vote impasse

Under-fire Dundee managing director John Nelms is to push for a league reconstruction guarantee to help end Scottish football’s vote chaos.

The SPFL remain hopeful that the Dark Blues can still be persuaded to back their plan to end the season below the Premiership. It hangs in the balance, waiting for Nelms and his board to make a decision.

A photograph of a voting slip, signed by the American and dated Friday, has emerged as proof that the club had intended rejecting the league’s proposal.

In a dramatic move, Dundee decided at the last minute to hang fire and now stand alone as the club that has the fate of the Championship, League One and League Two in their hands.

The top flight have said yes, the third and fourth tiers likewise, leaving just the Championship to be decided. Seven clubs in that division have backed the resolution, including runaway leaders Dundee United, while Inverness Caley Thistle and Partick Thistle have said no. It needs eight to adopt the proposal.

That all leaves Nelms being lobbied and it is understood no fewer than four SPFL board members held crisis talks with the American on Saturday, a clear indication that they think he is not necessarily a hard no vote.

Courier Sport also believes Dundee won’t be saying anything publicly regarding their situation until the dust settles following a stormy few days.

Their strategy going forward, though, appears to be to get a motion passed by the clubs that would give a written guarantee regarding reconstruction for the 2020-21 season, whenever that kicks off.

 

The plan is believed to be for a 14-10-10-10 set-up that would see them stay in the Championship, with United and second-placed Inverness promoted.

Dundee’s thinking is that it would benefit their own team in the long-term and that it would win the support of the required number of SPFL members.

The problem of relegation from the top division would be solved as Hearts would stay up but the challenge will be persuading other Premiership sides to spread their income across an extra two clubs.

It would, though, allow the millions of pounds’ worth of place money being held by the SPFL to be distributed to cash-starved teams with immediate effect and would give meaning and merit to the Dark Blues’ decision not to vote on Friday.

Nelms, meanwhile, received some sympathy from Ross County chairman Roy MacGregor, whose club backed the SPFL plan.

The Staggies chief said: “I am really sorry for Dundee and John Nelms. He is a fine man.

“For whatever reason, they have decided to hold their position, which seems is what they’ve done, and I’m sure it will be for a genuine reason that will come out in due course.

“For whatever reason, John felt he could maybe be more diplomatic and get a solution if his vote was the critical one.

“It’s very difficult and I wouldn’t like to, as a club, be in that position now.”

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-fc/1261153/dundee-managing-director-john-nelms-prepares-to-push-for-league-reconstruction-guarantee-in-bid-to-end-spfl-vote-impasse/?utm_source=twitter

This article intrigues and worries me. If Dundee are going to be leaking anything I suspect it will be to their local rag so the suggestion of a 14-10-10-10 set up is new and hasn't been mentioned before as far as I know. There are obvious advantages in it as a quick fix for the SPFL in the current shit storm because it removes the threat of relegation from the likes of Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer and undercuts the support that we might be relying on for removing Doncaster and ensuring wider reform. You can bet Doncaster will try his best to stay in place and cover his tracks if Dundee do cave in.

 

However how the hell would a 14 team SPL work? Three rounds of 13 games and then a 7-7 split to play 46 games? You can't be serious.

 

If this is seriously being discussed between Dundee and the 4 SPFL board members noted in the article, who has given these board members the authority to negotiate on behalf of the league with what is effectively a "rogue" club?

 

Why was this apparently ongoing "negotation" not mentioned by the SPFL Chairman in his (not conflicted) statement yesterday?

 

It clear that Dundee's original NO vote was discarded. They were seen as potentially the most pliable of the three dissenting Championship clubs and by hook or by crook they are being compelled/bribed/coerced to change their vote. A banana republic could have handled this better.

 

This ought to end up in court with the Dundee Company secretary questioned under oath to establish the precise timeline of events and when their NO vote was sent. That establishes their original and uninfluenced intention. Everything after that is deception and potentially criminal.

 

Is another tainted title for Celtic really worth all of these lies and making the game in Scotland look even more of a laughing stock than it currently does?

[buster. 5,186]

22 minutes ago, Doc said:

This article intrigues and worries me. If Dundee are going to be leaking anything I suspect it will be to their local rag so the suggestion of a 14-10-10-10 set up is new and hasn't been mentioned before as far as I know. There are obvious advantages in it as a quick fix for the SPFL in the current shit storm because it removes the threat of relegation from the likes of Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer and undercuts the support that we might be relying on for removing Doncaster and ensuring wider reform. You can bet Doncaster will try his best to stay in place and cover his tracks if Dundee do cave in.

 

However how the hell would a 14 team SPL work? Three rounds of 13 games and then a 7-7 split to play 46 games? You can't be serious.

 

If this is seriously being discussed between Dundee and the 4 SPFL board members noted in the article, who has given these board members the authority to negotiate on behalf of the league with what is effectively a "rogue" club?

 

Why was this apparently ongoing "negotation" not mentioned by the SPFL Chairman in his (not conflicted) statement yesterday?

 

It clear that Dundee's original NO vote was discarded. They were seen as potentially the most pliable of the three dissenting Championship clubs and by hook or by crook they are being compelled/bribed/coerced to change their vote. A banana republic could have handled this better.

 

This ought to end up in court with the Dundee Company secretary questioned under oath to establish the precise timeline of events and when their NO vote was sent. That establishes their original and uninfluenced intention. Everything after that is deception and potentially criminal.

 

Is another tainted title for Celtic really worth all of these lies and making the game in Scotland look even more of a laughing stock than it currently does?

14 team league 

2 rounds of games (26)

split

2 rounds of games (12)

26 + 12 = 38

 

Dundee can revoke their original intention, if negative.

IMO the issue is more why and the mechanics of how that took place.

ie. dark shennanigans from SPFL and/or other actors...and that is what I´d hope the whistleblower evidence clearly uncovers.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by buster.

[Doc 280]

1 minute ago, buster. said:

14 team league 

2 rounds of games (26)

split

2 rounds of games (12)

26 + 12 = 38

Possible. Dull as fuck though. Below the split line that's a long time and a lot of games just to decide who goes down. It's bad enough with just 5 rounds to play. And a lot of clubs miss out on one more home against the OF than they are currently getting. Can't see it being widely popular with lots of current mid tier SPL clubs.

 

Plus it wasn't mentioned in the voting options for SPFL members and wasn't on the table for discussion....until 5pm on Friday. And only with respect to one club it would appear.

[buster. 5,186]

Just now, Doc said:

Possible. Dull as fuck though. Below the split line that's a long time and a lot of games just to decide who goes down. It's bad enough with just 5 rounds to play. And a lot of clubs miss out on one more home against the OF than they are currently getting. Can't see it being widely popular with lots of current mid tier SPL clubs.

 

Plus it wasn't mentioned in the voting options for SPFL members and wasn't on the table for discussion....until 5pm on Friday. And only with respect to one club it would appear.

I think the priority would be (within extraordinary circumstances), to mitigate preventable damage to certain clubs (eg. Hearts, P.Thistle, etc) whilst taking into consideration an option to review the structure the following summer.

 

The SPFL wanted to more or less push through everything in one go and didn´t appear to care much for several member clubs at an unprecedented time.

[Doc 280]

21 minutes ago, buster. said:

Dundee can revoke their original intention, if negative.

IMO the issue is more why and the mechanics of how that took place.

ie. dark shennanigans from SPFL and/or other actors...and that is what I´d hope the whistleblower evidence clearly uncovers.

 

Dundee can only revoke that vote because the result was not declared - because the SPFL didn't get the result they wanted. If the vote was genuinely outstanding and they didn't already know that it was a NO (no laughing at the back there) then common sense as well as the legality of the vote would dictate that no information on any of the outcomes should have released until all votes were in or the legal deadline for voting had elapsed, as per any established voting process. Basically we should all still be in the dark and potentially waiting 28 days to hear the outcome. Instead that principle was thrown out of the window and they released as many votes as they had to make it clear that one more YES vote was all that was needed while they went back to Dundee with all the pressure and sweeteners they could muster to get the outcome they wanted.

 

Absolutely we have to focus on the process and the mechanics of the vote because those have been flouted to ensure that the "right" outcome was reached by whatever means. That's where Rangers and other clubs have their strongest case and Doncaster and his cronies will find it hardest to wriggle out of it.

 

I hope the whistleblower has some really damning evidence. The way the SPFL are doubling down with every response, we are going to need it.

[buster. 5,186]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

Dundee can only revoke that vote because the result was not declared - because the SPFL didn't get the result they wanted. If the vote was genuinely outstanding and they didn't already know that it was a NO (no laughing at the back there) then common sense as well as the legality of the vote would dictate that no information on any of the outcomes should have released until all votes were in or the legal deadline for voting had elapsed, as per any established voting process. Basically we should all still be in the dark and potentially waiting 28 days to hear the outcome. Instead that principle was thrown out of the window and they released as many votes as they had to make it clear that one more YES vote was all that was needed while they went back to Dundee with all the pressure and sweeteners they could muster to get the outcome they wanted.

 

Absolutely we have to focus on the process and the mechanics of the vote because those have been flouted to ensure that the "right" outcome was reached by whatever means. That's where Rangers and other clubs have their strongest case and Doncaster and his cronies will find it hardest to wriggle out of it.

 

I hope the whistleblower has some really damning evidence. The way the SPFL are doubling down with every response, we are going to need it.

Was their dark shennanigans going on behind closed doors?........ Of course

However, unless we can and do prove it, they´ll be able to wriggle out of it allbeit with a degree of reputational damage, but given their reputation wasn´t good before this event, it won´t make much difference.

 

And unless we can and do, we´ll end up getting slaughtered by a willing media.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by buster.