Scottish Cup 5th Round: Hamilton Acas v Rangers

[Gonzo79 15,294]

44 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

And frankly I would hazard a guess this romance of the cup pish means absolutely nothing to club chairmen all over Scotland. 

Are you suggesting we base football upon what club chairmen want?

[JFK-1 1,693]

3 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

Are you suggesting we base football upon what club chairmen want?

In a word, no. I made a suggestion for a cup situation in financially strapped Scottish football. Let me break it down.

 

In an instance like the upcoming Hamilton v Rangers tie I would suggest that if the team drawn first, Hamilton, expressed a preference to play the tie at Ibrox and Rangers were in agreement then simply make all parties happy by allowing it.

 

Are you suggesting that the Stranraer chairman would possibly have been so overcome with the romantic notion of beating Rangers in the cup that he would have preferred the tie had been drawn at 4,178 capacity Stair Park (1,830 seated)? Or was he not so romantically inclined and a lot happier it was taking place at Ibrox where a reported 38,560 attended?

 

Chairmen aside this is a headline I saw expressing the thoughts of the Stranraer manager.

 

Quote

Ibrox gate receipt will keep Stranraer going for four years says Frank McKeown

My guess is he and the entire board were over the moon it was away at Ibrox and would further guess Hamilton would have felt exactly the same way. But maybe they and I for that matter are rarities not affected by any romance of the cup cliches. Who knows.

[Gonzo79 15,294]

11 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

In an instance like the upcoming Hamilton v Rangers tie I would suggest that if the team drawn first, Hamilton, expressed a preference to play the tie at Ibrox and Rangers were in agreement then simply make all parties happy by allowing it.

I disagree completely. It's the Scottish Cup, not a think tank for money men.

 

First team out of the hat play at home.  

[craig 5,199]

18 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I disagree completely. It's the Scottish Cup, not a think tank for money men.

 

First team out of the hat play at home.  

Completely agree.  Allowing clubs to change the venue based on their financial desires completely ruins the romance of the cup.  Like it or not, Accies should be playing this tie at home, not at Ibrox.

 

Maybe we should just let Accies, St Mirren, Killie etc play all their league games against the OF at Ibrox or Parkhead too - you know, because it would be financially beneficial for them to do so.  It's a ridiculous suggestion for a top flight club to give away home field advantage to another top flight club.

[JFK-1 1,693]

1 hour ago, craig said:

Completely agree.  Allowing clubs to change the venue based on their financial desires completely ruins the romance of the cup.  Like it or not, Accies should be playing this tie at home, not at Ibrox.

 

Maybe we should just let Accies, St Mirren, Killie etc play all their league games against the OF at Ibrox or Parkhead too - you know, because it would be financially beneficial for them to do so.  It's a ridiculous suggestion for a top flight club to give away home field advantage to another top flight club.

Playing all their league games at Ibrox is a ridiculous suggestion which is exactly why not I nor even club chairmen or fans would suggest it. Revenue from league games isn't even shared while one off Scottish cup revenue is.

 

In fact that would likely only be suggested by someone who has nothing better to negate the actual suggestion than a cliche.

 

Even the fans of these smaller clubs would give all that tired romance nonsense a back seat if their small club could get the chance of gathering 4 years of finance from a single game as Stranraer did. Should only the cliches of fans of the bigger clubs who these ties aren't a potentially once in a generation lifeline be taken into account?

 

Another quote from the Stranraer manager Frank McKeown.

 

Quote

We've probably got the second-lowest budget in Scotland so to survive, even in League One, it's massive for us. The club have worked wonders for 10 years we've been in that league so a game like this is huge for the club. Not even for the management or players but for the volunteers and fans who go every week. It's massive.

That's about as romantic as it gets for them. Their only realistic dream romance.

[craig 5,199]

3 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Playing all their league games at Ibrox is a ridiculous suggestion which is exactly why not I nor even club chairmen or fans would suggest it. Revenue from league games isn't even shared while one off Scottish cup revenue is.

 

In fact that would likely only be suggested by someone who has nothing better to negate the actual suggestion than a cliche.

 

Even the fans of these smaller clubs would give all that tired romance nonsense a back seat if their small club could get the chance of gathering 4 years of finance from a single game as Stranraer did. Should only the cliches of fans of the bigger clubs who these ties aren't a potentially once in a generation lifeline be taken into account?

 

Another quote from the Stranraer manager Frank McKeown.

 

That's about as romantic as it gets for them. Their only realistic dream romance.

Suggesting it for cup games between two top flight teams is just as ridiculous.  Absolute lunacy.  I could ALMOST get behind it for a Junior club playing an OF team, but top flight teams ?  Nope, not ever.

 

You aren't talking about Stranraer, youre talking about another team in Scotland's top flight.

 

Fans shouldn't be taken into account in this type of suggestion - the rules of the competition, tradition, and common sense should though.

 

Silly suggestion.

[Gonzo79 15,294]

7 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Should only the cliches of fans of the bigger clubs who these ties aren't a potentially once in a generation lifeline be taken into account?

I suppose we have you to speak on behalf of all Scottish chairmen and all fans of the diddy clubs, so what do I know.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Gonzo79

[ranger_syntax 4,330]

54 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Should only the cliches of fans of the bigger clubs who these ties aren't a potentially once in a generation lifeline be taken into account?

Quite commendable that @Gonzo79 managed to parse this.

 

I couldn't. 

[compo 7,049]

I wonder how many tickets will come our way 

[JFK-1 1,693]

6 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

I suppose we have you to speak on behalf of all Scottish chairmen and all fans of the diddy clubs, so what do I know.

Indeed what do you know? You're bringing nothing but a cliche to support your view.
 

In the case of this particular 'diddy club' I happen to know a lot of their fans personally having grown up with them and lived most of my life with them so I can claim to know something more than most regarding their views. I emailed one earlier today who would be described as one of their 'hard core' to ask him his view which could be condensed down to hell yeah.

Hamilton may be in the top flight but they're by no means a top flight club. They punch above their weight to be where they are but that wont last indefinitely. They have an average attendance around 2,400 which is bloated by OF  games. There were 1,040 in attendance at their last SC tie with Edinburgh City and 1,536 at their last home league game v St Johnstone.

Not their management from board level down or their fans have any expectation whatsoever of winning this cup so the very best thing they can get from it is a tie at Ibrox. They would prefer that even if losing to actually winning the tie in Hamilton then potentially going out in the next round in front of a couple of thousand versus Motherwell.  

I have had conversations and drinks with a number of their managers over my life. The likes of Eric Smith, Bertie Auld, and John Lambie. I can assure you they too would have gone along with my suggestion in a flash. I have never spoken to any chairmen but expect their views would be equally or even more in favour.

So given the recent quotes from Stranraer management I think we can presume there would appear to be a pattern of concensus emerging  there. This is a tweet from Stranraer after the game where they aren't waxing lyrical about any romance of the cup bullshit. They unequivocally state the most important aspect of the tie.
 

This isn't the era of romance in football, that went down the pan decades ago when attendances declined from historic highs and averages plus all gate revenue including league gates was indeed shared. Want to go back to that kind of romance? I don't want that but you can be sure Hamilton would.

 

In this era many are struggling just to survive and that should be the main focus not airy fairy ideas of romance. The struggle was perfectly illustrated a few seasons or so ago when Partick were complaining that some teams which could be relegation rivals of theirs were getting an extra home match with Rangers in comparison to them. 
 
Take note of that. They were complaining about missing out on a single game at home to Rangers and it wasn't about home advantage. It was only gate money in a stadium that only holds 10,000. So what could it mean to them to get an away game in which the gate was shared and there were potentially 4 times as many people as their stadium can hold in attendance?

As for mention of the rules the rules are being changed in football all the time and this wouldn't even be a binding rule. It would be an option if both parties were in agreement which would make both parties happy and that's somehow bad?.

 

But if you think I really need to interview all chairmen and all fans of 'diddy' clubs throughout Scotland to get an accurate view then that's fine. I disagree. And till you go interview them all to discover an unexpected view contrary to mine that's where we stand.