Ongoing issues with UEFA (two sanctions and counting)

[gaspard 562]

This is very much a head v heart issue for me.

 

Head says we lost the battle for free use of the word ****** years ago (and I refuse to self-censor that word since they have taken to publically using it to characterise themselves) and that appears to be the offending term at issue whether it be in TBB or Super Rangers.

The regulatory authorities at every level have been coerced to believe it is derogatory to Roman Catholics despite the historical evidence to the contrary. So be it.

Nobody wants to be continually sanctioned by UEFA and I fully support any measure that helps to eliminate any behaviour that endangers our participation.

The club have taken action to discipline some of the offenders, and it is only some, to say BF1 are the only ones to sing “offensively” is clearly drivel, they may be the worst offenders and by sitting collectively are easily identified as a single entity and targeted for punishment but they are not guilty in isolation.

But was this the correct path to take? Is this the route Separate Entity FC would have taken?

No danger, they would have closed a section up in the Gods, had some serious talks with TGBB and thrown them a few bones in return for a promise of good behaviour for a few weeks.

Nevertheless my head says the UB know they have been doing wrong and deserve sanction, but I also believe the club have tackled the issue very clumsily, they should have been making the seriousness of the situation clear to UB some time ago and made the repercussions crystal clear to everyone in that section, then perhaps, we wouldn’t be where we are now.

 

What does my heart say though? Well to be honest is despairs at the tone of some of the comments in this thread, you would almost get the impression that some of the posters on here are only too happy to turn on their own. Good grief we even have some bringing the UVF into this, that’s dangerous territory and something I would expect more from the likes of Speirs than a Rangers supporter, my Great Uncle was in the UVF and was killed at Ypres in 1917, the day his memory becomes taboo will be when hell freezes over.

The UB are no angels but without them our match day experience would be much the poorer, sure if you sit near them I’m sure the constant noise could become tedious, but without them Ibrox becomes a library.

My heart has some sympathy for the UB, they have done more for the atmosphere at Ibrox in recent years than anyone, and that includes not just the songs but also the displays which they raised funds for themselves and we all enjoyed. They are young lads full of passion for goodness sake, has everyone forgotten what they were like at that age? They need educated not kicked in the balls from fellow bears.

IMO the club have, rightly or wrongly, maybe just given them the kick up the backside they need to wise up and that’s enough for me, I won’t be jumping on the sanctimonious bandwagon to berate fellow Rangers fans on a public platform.

[gaspard 562]

Just realised Gersnet censors the word automatically - gobsmacked -

 

I'm out

[ranger_syntax 4,322]

3 hours ago, gaspard said:

Just realised Gersnet censors the word automatically - gobsmacked -

 

I'm out

Gersnet just saved you the bother of self-censoring.

 

Thought this would inspire gratitude rather than resentment.

[weebluedevil 1,239]

4 hours ago, gaspard said:

They are young lads full of passion for goodness sake, has everyone forgotten what they were like at that age? They need educated not kicked in the balls from fellow bears.

They need educated, exactly. Therefore, Rangers Fan Forums need to do their bit by warning young passionate fans and censor the words that are no longer acceptable to drill the message home that use of the words will only harm the club, whether used at matches or in public social discussions online. 

 

Gersnet clearly leading by example, good for them. ??

[Frankie 8,562]

5 hours ago, gaspard said:

Just realised Gersnet censors the word automatically - gobsmacked -

 

I'm out

The word is censored to avoid any complications for both the user and the administrators of the site.

 

No-one denies it's usage is complicated and the word itself inoffensive but we've all seen how context can be twisted by authorities.

 

I'd rather myself and site users didn't have their door knocked in chapped by Police Scotland at 6am in the morning.

[JohnMc 2,754]

5 hours ago, gaspard said:

This is very much a head v heart issue for me.

 

Head says we lost the battle for free use of the word ****** years ago (and I refuse to self-censor that word since they have taken to publically using it to characterise themselves) and that appears to be the offending term at issue whether it be in TBB or Super Rangers.

The regulatory authorities at every level have been coerced to believe it is derogatory to Roman Catholics despite the historical evidence to the contrary. So be it.

Nobody wants to be continually sanctioned by UEFA and I fully support any measure that helps to eliminate any behaviour that endangers our participation.

The club have taken action to discipline some of the offenders, and it is only some, to say BF1 are the only ones to sing “offensively” is clearly drivel, they may be the worst offenders and by sitting collectively are easily identified as a single entity and targeted for punishment but they are not guilty in isolation.

But was this the correct path to take? Is this the route Separate Entity FC would have taken?

No danger, they would have closed a section up in the Gods, had some serious talks with TGBB and thrown them a few bones in return for a promise of good behaviour for a few weeks.

Nevertheless my head says the UB know they have been doing wrong and deserve sanction, but I also believe the club have tackled the issue very clumsily, they should have been making the seriousness of the situation clear to UB some time ago and made the repercussions crystal clear to everyone in that section, then perhaps, we wouldn’t be where we are now.

 

What does my heart say though? Well to be honest is despairs at the tone of some of the comments in this thread, you would almost get the impression that some of the posters on here are only too happy to turn on their own. Good grief we even have some bringing the UVF into this, that’s dangerous territory and something I would expect more from the likes of Speirs than a Rangers supporter, my Great Uncle was in the UVF and was killed at Ypres in 1917, the day his memory becomes taboo will be when hell freezes over.

The UB are no angels but without them our match day experience would be much the poorer, sure if you sit near them I’m sure the constant noise could become tedious, but without them Ibrox becomes a library.

My heart has some sympathy for the UB, they have done more for the atmosphere at Ibrox in recent years than anyone, and that includes not just the songs but also the displays which they raised funds for themselves and we all enjoyed. They are young lads full of passion for goodness sake, has everyone forgotten what they were like at that age? They need educated not kicked in the balls from fellow bears.

IMO the club have, rightly or wrongly, maybe just given them the kick up the backside they need to wise up and that’s enough for me, I won’t be jumping on the sanctimonious bandwagon to berate fellow Rangers fans on a public platform.

Rangers supporters are not beyond criticism, especially from ourselves. It's far from sanctimonious to complain when 3,000 of our own supporters are prevented from attending our biggest match of the season so far. 

 

The memory of your great uncle was besmirched not by posters on this thread, or by Speirs, but by the gangsters, drug dealers and murderers who use their name today. Perhaps your ire would be better directed at them. 

[der Berliner 3,744]

When it comes  to the IRA, the UVF, sectarianism, the mhedia and the "preceived" perception of these groups or F*enian and Hun, the pendulum partlöy swing only in one direction, while partly revolving 360°.

 

Take the IRA and the green-gray mentality says they are freedom fighters to the core, whether 1917 or 1978, whether they fought for Ireland`s freedom back in 1917 or bomb-blasted British people in Ulster, England or Scotland in the late 20th century. THAT was not sectarian, of course. Even though our songs usually point out against which self-termed F*enians we sing, and they are not the Irish people or Catholics per se. Context matters. But then you sing a song about the UVF and whoosh ... it is sectarian. When most current songs about them come from or refer to the 1915s too (We're coming down the road) ... and the songs actually oftentimes make that pretty clear. But when one supportive song is okay while the other isn't, where is any base for argument? As has been pointed out above, it goes out of the window when you note that "minorities" can have a go at the perceived "oppressors" all along, while the supposed oppressors are not allowed to criticise the "minorities" no matter what?! 

 

I noted the UB's reply to the club's actions and it was clear as day that the "Ultras" weren't happy that their section was targetted. But honestly, their adherents were probably the most prominent singers of all the naughty songs on away matches and they surely know that. IMHO, it was a shot across the bows.

[Bluedell 5,627]

7 hours ago, gaspard said:

Head says we lost the battle for free use of the word ****** years ago (and I refuse to self-censor that word since they have taken to publically using it to characterise themselves) and that appears to be the offending term at issue whether it be in TBB or Super Rangers.

The regulatory authorities at every level have been coerced to believe it is derogatory to Roman Catholics despite the historical evidence to the contrary. So be it.

The term has been used as a derogatory term for RCs for decades. I've heard it at Ibrox, and in day-to-day life as I'm sure many who live in Glasgow have.

 

I'm not sure what historical evidence there is to say that it's not used in that way. 

 

 

[Uilleam 5,940]

The UBs suggest that the Club has been

"Chasing appeasement from two dubious organisations in UEFA and FARE..."

 

The assertion that UEFA is a "dubious organisation" is unclear. I think the UBs are suggesting that it operates somewhere on a spectrum between shady and corrupt, and that its dealings are, habitually, "dubious" ie questionable on ethical and legal grounds. I may sympathise with that position, but I don't see how that legitimises "discriminatory" chanting, singing, etc. After all, even a criminal may be the victim of a crime. 

 

Rather than pursuing a policy of appeasement,  it seems to me that the Club is merely complying with UEFA's sanction, a punishment imposed for a breach of its rules. As we all know, if you join an organisation, you agree to abide by its rules and its regulations; if you break them, you face disciplinary action; if you continue to flout them, after due process, warnings, and impositions -and god knows the support, and the Club, have had many admonitions and financial punishments- you may be drummed out on your, demonstrably tin, ear. 

 

FARE may offer only a one way ticket, but it  clearly seems to operate under the imprimatur of UEFA, the organisation of which the Club is a member, and whose rules, etc, it is obliged to obey. Thus it has a role and degree of legitimacy in investigating  matters of racism, sectarianism, etc. It does not operate among our support as an agent provocateur; it has, regrettably, no need.  

If FARE is our enemy, or is concerned only, and overly, with the "misbehaviour" of elements of our support, then why knowingly hand them  ammunition to use against the Club? 

As for pointing the finger elsewhere, well, that is never going to justify infraction of the rules; after all I may not defend a charge of housebreaking in Halfway, by declaring, baldly, that worse happens in Hamilton, or Harthill. 

 

The Club is not - now or ever- going to get the rules about discriminatory chanting overturned, should it even wish to do so, and the support has to understand and ldeal with this. It is surely not a life changing matter.

 

I may say that I have little problem with criticism of the pope, or the papacy, or popery (or any religion whatsoever, for that matter). I do question, however, the necessity, and the wisdom, of airing such theological positions, albeit, perhaps particularly,  in brief form, en masse, at a football match.

 

As for the appellation "Ianfen" (anag.), the semantic battle, if such there was, is lost. It is a moot point, however, just how many of the support mean a supporter of armed insurrection to further the cause of Irish Republicanism and unification rather than a disparaging term for a Catholic, albeit, perhaps, of Irish origin. 

 

I suspect that there is worse to come from UEFA, from other games. 

 

It's time to play with the head, not just with the heart and the hand, and this right now, immediately.

 

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is often cited as a sign of insanity. It was put to me many years ago, in similar, but stronger, vein that a psychopath never learns from experience. 

 

[craig 5,199]

10 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Hardly. I despise them but it doesn't occupy me on a daily basis. But, in saying that, Sunday September 28th i'm looking for them to be soundly thrashed and humiliated. Which will all be the fault of that 'hun' McInnes for not 'having a go'

I so dearly wish he would have a go but he knows as well as I do what would happen if they actually tried to play football against Rangers at Ibrox this season.

Have you seen the number of times you have posted in Rangers threads about Aberdeen.... current thread being just one example.....  Self awareness is a terrific trait