MacK1950 2,376 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Like the so called "strict liability" and other attempts to suppress anti social behaviour, it is impossible to implement and police,as any irresponsible idiot,of any persuasion, can don clothing,gain access and simply be anti social at any public event. Just watching the events in London is a prime example. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 8 hours ago, JohnMc said: In Glasgow today the majority of people have no connection to loyal orders. Most people won't care if they don't see another Orange march in their life. That's the harsh reality. No doubt you are a popular fellow but like most people you will have a finite group of friends and acquaintances. As such I would refute your right to purport such statements to be true and factual. You have no way of knowing if either statement is true without showing published data. Pushback is a harsh reality. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 5,185 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 57 minutes ago, barca72 said: To use the words of the SNP leader of the GCC - ... "Official participants may not be involved in sectarian and anti-social incidents around parades but it’s simply not enough to absolve themselves by pointing to hangers-on." The guy who assaulted the priest committed vile acts. Can you honestly say that it is the responsibility of the Loyalist Order, whichever is on parade, has the duty of care of taking this guy out before he commits an assault or even during the assault? You're calling that a force fit argument. How about looking at the flip-side of the argument and recognize that Susan Aitken has been disingenous in using this one inflammatory incident to circumvent the fact that the Loyalist Orders themselves are not guilty of any inflammatory behaviour because they are well-stewarded by their own personnel, but she continues to push her agenda and that of her supporters such as 'Call It Out'. If Aitken will give some kind of official standing to the stewards of the Loyalist Orders to detect and deal with unsavoury and unwanted characters who have attached themselves to the general route of the walk then that would be something else, but for me all she is doing is absolving the Police from doing their duty. She knows full well that if she was to give the Loyalist Orders stewards permission to police the public on the sidewalk and just one of them made a mistake then there would be all hell to pay and she would hold the can. What is her next step, let the parade move 200 yds. up the London road and then bus the parade to Glasgow Green? Human rights be damned. Those who see the Loyalist Orders who are on parade and their supporters on the side walk as one and the same are wrong. It is an easy argument to say that the Orders should be responsible for them but it is wrong. This is not like a football club and its supporters where the club knows(for the greater majority) to whom it is selling a ticket, and hence a degree of control. Anybody can come from anywhere, yes even tourists, to attach to the walk and you want to say the Loyal Orders are responsible for them? That is a specious argument. You may not agree with the protestors, but surely they have that right to protest a perceived wrong? There are many good Presbyterian members of the Loyal Orders who are presently uncomfortable about the agenda in place at GCC. What I was calling a force-fit was your comparison with the video/tweet you posted. The reason I asked you for a definition of the term "follower" as used in your post about tweet/comparison was to further understand argument regards responsibility. I'd agree with you that the politicians and pressure groups have the O.O. where they want them and are themselves force-fitting what seems as unreasonable criteria regards the responsibility for spectators (if that is what they are). That said, if a march or whatever event attracts unsavoury elements/criminal behaviour, then the authorities do have a duty to act/look to prevent repeat incidents. This in turn has to be balanced with civil rights. Is it reasonable to force through so much change for one spectator/follower spitting ? With the caveat of not knowing every detail about the episode, I'd say, probably no and that it follows a predictable pattern of a certain degree of abuse of power by politicians, together with one-sided pressure groups. As I mentioned previously, the best way to play it has already been put forward by a O.O. statement,..it was a suggestion, an offer to come together and stand against bigotry whilst on the march. It was an olive branch of sorts that didn't seem to be talked about or considered. IMO. this line should have been persevered with. A genuine attempt to go further towards a lasting solution that would make anyone refusing it look unreasonable. Whoever had that idea should be listened to more because I think a more confrontational approach will end up having a negative outcome for the O.O. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/hardline-republican-group-linked-new-14447936 Hardline Irish Republican group linked to New IRA coming to Scotland for Easter Rising rally Saoradh are heading to Glasgow after causing outrage in the wake of journalist Lyra McKee's murder in Derry. A hardline militant republican group linked to the New IRA(which is a proscribed group in the UK), who were responsible for the murder of journalist Lyra McKee, are coming to Scotland. Saoradh – Irish for “liberation” – will come to Glasgow this weekend for an event to commemorate the Easter Rising. ... And Saoradh will now join an event at Glasgow’s Lambhill cemetery this Sunday to mark the anniversary of the 1916 rebellion to overthrow British rule in Ireland and set up an Irish republic. ... ... Previously, Saoradh said: “Scotland has been a traditional area of solidarity in the struggle for Irish freedom.” ... No agenda mind you, but just who issued the permit to allow these admitted murderers to attend this? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 There’s no limit to the SNP’s squalid covert endorsement of Irish Republicanism 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,624 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 On 21/04/2019 at 17:25, BEARGER said: Why would you or anyone else want to do that? For the same reason as the priest? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 As a follow up, at St Alphonsus chapel ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooponthewing 1,139 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 hours ago, barca72 said: As a follow up, at St Alphonsus chapel ... The SNP don’t give a shit now. They know they are on the way out at the next election and it’s open season on anyone with political or religious ties with Protestantism or unionism. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I think it's pretty clear the SNP would already be dust if it wasn't for a core support that's vaguely Scottish, identifiably Irish, emotionally republican and strongly anti-British. They courted it and now cling to it like a life raft. Unfortunately for the SNP, they have no chance of controlling these constituents who will inevitably poison their host like everything else they touch. Never ever trust the SNP. If they say it, they're lying. If they do it, it's deceit. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 A nasty, cynical political play from start to finish by Aitken, Call it Out and Yousaf. With their other political failures it's hard to see how they will survive at the next election. Good riddance. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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