VanguardBears are to join protests against Glasgow City Council

[Gaffer 1,665]

35 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

Traditionally there has been a link in who we support and who we vote for. I certainly know that my supporters bus, which is no longer running, was 100% anti-independence.

 

The pro-independence members on here certainly appear to take the side of the politicians rather than the club in +90% of cases where there are issues. It is only natural for this to cause comments.

 

John refers back to the issues when Labour were the majority. The big difference was that Rangers supporting Labour voters (guys like Bearwood Bear on FF spring to mind, there are loads more) actively attempted to do something about it. They would call out the politicians who caused problems and try and work to get things changed. They didn't sit back and defend them like we see with the nationalists on here. They tried to cultivate the Rangers fans within the Labour party.

 

I'm personally not trying to say who can or can't be a Rangers fan, but if there are those who do, perhaps those who it's aimed at should think about putting the club first before biased politicians once in a while.

 

 

I understand what you're saying here, but anti-independence is a single issue that will be important to some people and not to others.  I look around all politically parties and they each stand for something that I find distasteful to say the least.  No one can claim to own the moral high ground when the parties you vote for are advocating action that negatively affects other people.  You can name any party at the moment and I'll give you examples of things that I find extremely damaging to our society.  Let's see who then sits back and who does something about it.  The FACT is that there isn't single party I'm aware of that can inhabit the moral high ground so many people on here, including you, then have to decide to either not vote (as is my decision), or vote for the least worst option.

 

For SNP voters on here, I'd certainly expect them to be aware of the attitude that some of its members have towards the club.  However, who am I (or who are you) to decide if that consideration is more important than other issues they may hold dear?  For Labour voters, I'd expect them to consider the fact that Corbyn is regarded as having sympathies towards certain terrorist groups and is actively trying to disregard the BrExit democratic process, but again if they decide to vote in that direction they will have weighed up the options and on balance decided that it's the least worst option.  The same applies to all other parties I can think of, and please don't get me started on the Greens.

 

I bet that almost all SNP voters on here will be frustrated, annoyed, or even furious at the treatment of our club by members of the party they vote for.  I certainly haven't seen anyone defend what they've done, but maybe I've missed that.  This is our football team's forum so understandably people like you and me will point out the corruption and bias towards our team, and there are certainly plenty of examples coming from various SNP politicians.  If it was a political discussion forum there isn't a single person on here who could defend their party against the bias and corruption in other more (in my opinion) important issues.

 

Thankfully Rangers attracts supporters from all backgrounds and that's a strength we have.  Just as @Billhas the right to make the interests of our club his most important consideration when voting, others have the right to make other issues (i.e. Non football related) their most important.  I cannot understand why anyone would have a problem in respecting that.

 

This thread is now brilliantly demonstrating the point I was trying to make earlier.  By us fighting internally we are losing focus on who the real enemy is.  The Biased Bhouys Corporation and certain political figures (most notably within GCC at the moment) are where our attention should be, and not on trying to condemn our own fans.

[stewarty 2,027]

Brilliantly put, @gaffer

 

I have voted Lib Dem, Labour, SNP and Green in my 19 years of voting, but I have concerns about each of them and will weigh up carefully what I consider to be the most important issues at the time of any given vote.

 

Most latterly I wrote to my SNP MSP about the Fanzone issue, and his response was one of ambivalent ignorance.  I will consider this carefully when he is next up for election.

[Bluedell 5,627]

10 minutes ago, stewarty said:

It seems you are ambivalent about an individual right to identify as a Bear on the basis of his political allegiance, because you don't agree with them on certain matters.   Have I misunderstood?  

Yes, I'd say you've misunderstood. It wasn't my intention to imply that.

[stewarty 2,027]

Thanks and apologies.    

[Bluedell 5,627]

10 minutes ago, Gaffer said:

I bet that almost all SNP voters on here will be frustrated, annoyed, or even furious at the treatment of our club by members of the party they vote for.  I certainly haven't seen anyone defend what they've done, but maybe I've missed that.  

There's plenty of examples of them defending the SNP and virtually no examples of them being "frustrated, annoyed, or even furious" that I've seen. I've been critical of them on quite a few occasions.

[Bluedell 5,627]

16 minutes ago, Gaffer said:

By us fighting internally we are losing focus on who the real enemy is.  The Biased Bhouys Corporation and certain political figures (most notably within GCC at the moment) are where our attention should be, and not on trying to condemn our own fans.

Even where these fans support or defend the actions of these political figures?

[Gonzo79 15,294]

3 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

There's plenty of examples of them defending the SNP and virtually no examples of them being "frustrated, annoyed, or even furious" that I've seen. I've been critical of them on quite a few occasions.

The only fury they demonstrate is when the obvious contradiction is mentioned.  

[cooponthewing 1,139]

3 hours ago, Gaffer said:

As far as I am aware, I am the only one who has said he is.  My motives are quite clear

Wasn’t just you Gaffer, nothing personal. My stance is that I do not comprehend anyone who votes for a party that has been proven, yes, proven, to discriminate and attack our club and culture. People can argue as much as they want but the fact remains, they are supporting those who wish to harm our club. If they really believe in independence, then they will prioritise that over our club and the majority of its support. 

 

No, I don’t follow the nationalist divisive ideology. However, if it was Labour or the Conservatives continually attacking our club, and supporters were voting for them, I would question that too. However, we know that won’t happen as the nationalist separatists hate our club with a passion and it is that that drives their motivation to cripple us at every opportunity.

Edited May 1, 2019 by cooponthewing

[Uilleam 5,946]

I generally eschew outright speculation, but I will suggest that, in the mind of the SNP member, or even mere voter, the overall goal of "Freedom", or of "Independence" or of being "a Nation again", will trump the travails of his, or her, or their, football Club. (Even if that Club is Scotland's Premier Sporting Institution.)

 

Consider the Church of Rome which has been evasive, duplicitous, and downright hypocritical over the issue child abuse by its prelates. Its equivocation (shall we say) seems to relate to its long term aim of saving immortal souls, a business over which it has granted itself a monopoly (if I understand its theology correctly).

 

In both instances the end, temporal or spiritual,  relegates everything else to secondary, or less, importance. 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Uilleam

[JohnMc 2,754]

2 hours ago, Bluedell said:

Nobody is saying it hasn't, but it seems to be getting worse and it's the SNP who are doing it at the moment.

 

It may not address or solve the issue but it at least identifies it and who the current problems are, rather than ignoring it. It's then up to people's own conscience as to who they vote for.  

 

There's also a difference between ambivalence and actively working against us.

My point Bluedell is that no one is working for us, the best we get is ambivalence, and the worst is people who clearly dislike us and make it quite well known. Why is that? Why are there no votes, or at least why is the perception there are no votes, for politicians in being publicly pro-Rangers? 

To me, these threads come across as some posters using it to have a go at the SNP, to underline their own political beliefs. The SNP didn't invent it, it's been around for a couple of decades now across all political stripes. 

 

For me you're not identifying the problem at all, the issue isn't Susan Aitken being a dick on Facebook chat, it's why someone like Susan Aitken feels that's acceptable, indeed maybe desirable. In the end she's doing what the people in power before her also did, and they had a very different political belief. For me, if you want to fix this, you need to address why we have no political capital no matter who is in power. 

You're making this about the SNP, it's not about them, it's much bigger than that.