VanguardBears are to join protests against Glasgow City Council

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,751]

6 hours ago, barca72 said:

To not align their faith with  the Orange Order is their choice but why would you use such a disparaging phrase as ' not one would go near the OO with a barge pole'. 
Why, what has the Orange Order done that they would be so intolerant, or is that your opinion?

Without going into too much detail, two of my acquaintances were verbally abused and spat at due to the fact that one of them was wearing a tartan scarf and they were waiting for the parade to pass in a friends car who happened to have an Irish licence plate. Understandably, this is why their faith has nowt to do with the OO.

 

From my own POV, I have an office in a part of town where parades take place on a frequent basis and I would say that the many of the followers are generally half cut and see it as day out to somehow align it with Rangers and being a "Proddy". I would say it usually provides an air of aggression rather than celebration and would not be surprised if any of the followers have been anywhere near a church they so proudly like to celebrate on that particular day.

 

To be fair to OO as an organisation, these examples I have given were from people who were following the parade as opposed to taking part in the said parade but if the OO want to adapt they have to be somewhat responsible for the people that choose to follow their marches as ultimately this will only reflect badly on them as an organisation. I'm sure I'm not only one with this assertion

Edited April 29, 2019 by BlackSocksRedTops

[Bluedell 5,624]

3 hours ago, BlackSocksRedTops said:

To be fair to OO as an organisation, these examples I have given were from people who were following the parade as opposed to taking part in the said parade but if the OO want to adapt they have to be somewhat responsible for the people that choose to follow their marches as ultimately this will only reflect badly on them as an organisation. I'm sure I'm not only one with this assertion

While agreeing with the point you're making to an extent (a section of the followers annoy me too), how do the OO do that? They generally provide stewards but they can only have limited powers and can't stop someone half cut from causing a bit of hassle.

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,751]

5 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

While agreeing with the point you're making to an extent (a section of the followers annoy me too), how do the OO do that? They generally provide stewards but they can only have limited powers and can't stop someone half cut from causing a bit of hassle.

I've no idea tbh but unless they address this they will leave themselves open to criticism 

[Bill 13,717]

17 minutes ago, BlackSocksRedTops said:

I've no idea tbh but unless they address this they will leave themselves open to criticism 

If I understand your thought process ... the OO don't cause trouble but some other people who the OO don't/can't/have no obligation to control sometimes do cause trouble ... and it's reasonable to criticise because of them. That's a doozie.

[Gaffer 1,665]

43 minutes ago, Bill said:

If I understand your thought process ... the OO don't cause trouble but some other people who the OO don't/can't/have no obligation to control sometimes do cause trouble ... and it's reasonable to criticise because of them. That's a doozie.

I think that's just a harsh (albeit unfair) reality.  I found myself in a similar position recently when the BBC protest was advertised.  I would have also taken part in that but due to the threat of some people misbehaving and therefore having that association, I couldn't participate.

 

I don't have a view on the OO, but any organisation will be affected by those associated with it.  Such organisations either have to try to mitigate the reputational damage, or accept it.

[JohnMc 2,750]

2 hours ago, Bluedell said:

While agreeing with the point you're making to an extent (a section of the followers annoy me too), how do the OO do that? They generally provide stewards but they can only have limited powers and can't stop someone half cut from causing a bit of hassle.

I don't have an answer either, but I agree with those who say they need to find a solution.

The Notting Hill Carnival in London resulted in serious rioting for a number of years. Yet they were able to work with police, the local council and the community to transform it into a global tourist attraction. They could perhaps speak with the people who run the Donegal Orange Walk which passes off peacefully every year and has also turned into something of a tourist attraction. Somehow they're able to hold a decent sized parade in the Republic Of Ireland without any problems. 

 

It doesn't strike me as impossible to turn the spectacle of a parade set to music from marching bands into something people with no association or connection might actually enjoy watching. I'm not Chinese but I've watched and enjoyed their New Year parade with the big puppet dragons and drums. 

[MacK1950 2,376]

As far as I am concerned we are talking a Glasgow based problem as Orange walks take place in many cities/towns and pass without any headlines.

It is easy to see that many Rangers fans attach themselves to the pavements aligning the roots,as do thousands of members of the general public,and support the marches without causing any trouble.

However there are a mindless number who relate to this being against the IRA,who as we all know did not exist basically till the last century or so,and thus their actions are what brings the marches into disrepute.

With regards to self stewarding the OO does this to very good effect but are not trained/authorised to deal with the mindless morons which is the job of the law officers.

Until these morons can see themselves for what they are a solution will be hard to find.

[Bluedell 5,624]

35 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

I don't have an answer either, but I agree with those who say they need to find a solution.

The Notting Hill Carnival in London resulted in serious rioting for a number of years. Yet they were able to work with police, the local council and the community to transform it into a global tourist attraction. They could perhaps speak with the people who run the Donegal Orange Walk which passes off peacefully every year and has also turned into something of a tourist attraction. Somehow they're able to hold a decent sized parade in the Republic Of Ireland without any problems. 

  

It doesn't strike me as impossible to turn the spectacle of a parade set to music from marching bands into something people with no association or connection might actually enjoy watching. I'm not Chinese but I've watched and enjoyed their New Year parade with the big puppet dragons and drums. 

Sounds good. It would need a slight change in attitude from a number of the parties involved (on both sides), but there should be more of an attempt to get rid of the negative connotations.

[barca72 440]

7 hours ago, BlackSocksRedTops said:

Without going into too much detail, two of my acquaintances were verbally abused and spat at due to the fact that one of them was wearing a tartan scarf and they were waiting for the parade to pass in a friends car who happened to have an Irish licence plate. Understandably, this is why their faith has nowt to do with the OO.

 

From my own POV, I have an office in a part of town where parades take place on a frequent basis and I would say that the many of the followers are generally half cut and see it as day out to somehow align it with Rangers and being a "Proddy". I would say it usually provides an air of aggression rather than celebration and would not be surprised if any of the followers have been anywhere near a church they so proudly like to celebrate on that particular day.

 

To be fair to OO as an organisation, these examples I have given were from people who were following the parade as opposed to taking part in the said parade but if the OO want to adapt they have to be somewhat responsible for the people that choose to follow their marches as ultimately this will only reflect badly on them as an organisation. I'm sure I'm not only one with this assertion

So, you admit that the Orange Order does not cause problems in and of itself, it is more their followers who do.
What happened to your acquaintances in their car was unacceptable and should be reported to the police.
However, your readiness to lump the Orange Order and its followers as one and the same is distressing. The Orange Order has worked with police and councils to ensure that there is the least amount of trouble possible from the lodge memberships and band members within their permitted ranks, when the will was there and no agendas were in play.
This leaves crowd control strictly under police authority. This is where disgust at sideline outrages should be directed. It is time the police did more to quell any disorder on the sidelines, although they too have a difficult, finely balanced road to hoe.
It is more than just the police that is required. It is education transmitted to the general public about respecting other people's space that needs to be resolved. That will take the acceptance of more than just the Orange Order.
After all, look at the difficulty Celtic and Rangers have in controlling difficult crowds even after appeals from the clubs.
It can be done though. The Orange Order parade in Donegal is attended by many lodges and bands from Ulster and the largest Apprentice Boys of Derry march in Londonderry is hailed as a great success because the will on both sides was there to compromise where necessary. Both the public and parade personnel respect each others space. 
 

[barca72 440]

Just lifted this from RM who lifted it from an SNP only group.

An agenda you say, all the way to the top ...

 

Posted 26 minutes ago

Edited April 30, 2019 by barca72