Club statement today

[Gonzo79 15,294]

2 minutes ago, Bill said:

To be fair, it has everything to do with politics. Without politics there would be no offensive songs and probably no contrived offendedness either. 

I think you're missing the point or some other obtuse response of that nature.

 

Born Under A Union Jack was particularly heart-warming today. 

[Bill 13,717]

Let's be clear and, if possible, honest as well.

 

The issue isn't a collective dislike of Celtic, Irish republicanism, Scottish nationalism, catholicism, plastic paddyism or anything else that Rangers fans choose to dislike. It's only about how that dislike (or any other like or dislike) is expressed. Nothing else. I certainly won't be changing my allegiances or dislikes. But I won't be deliberately scoring own goals for the opposition either.

[MacK1950 2,378]

Jeez let's keep all the elected members out of it and concentrate on the club's request to keep certain words out of the singing it's not too hard.

[Bill 13,717]

2 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I think you're missing the point or some other obtuse response of that nature.

 

Born Under A Union Jack was particularly heart-warming today. 

I should hope so. It certainly warms my heart to have been born under a union jack.

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,752]

6 minutes ago, MacK1950 said:

Jeez let's keep all the elected members out of it and concentrate on the club's request to keep certain words out of the singing it's not too hard.

It obviously is for some

[JohnMc 2,754]

10 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

 

Theobald Wolfe Tone was a Protestant.  

He was, almost all of the United Irishmen were including a number of clergymen. Wolfe Tone was dead nearly 60 years before the Fenian Brotherhood was formed though, he had nothing to do with it.

 

This is the problem with words, their meanings change. I suspect many people who use that word use it as a derogatory term for RCs, some use it to simply mean Celtic supporters, others use it refer to violent Irish nationalists and lastly some use it as a term to describe anyone they see as anti-Rangers. If we look at Steve Clarke it's hard to argue those calling him a "sad Fenian bastard" were referring to his strong views on historical Irish history, because as far as I know he's never spoken publicly about these views. So maybe not everyone who uses that word is as concerned with its origins, just what it means to them today.

 

I was in Belfast yesterday, my first visit for pleasure for a while. I used to live there back in the 90s and it was interesting to see the changes since then. I went full tourist and did the did the bus tour, it was cold and wet but still interesting. The tour guide explained that he couldn't describe the various paramilitary organisations as terrorists, because the bus went through areas where they were still quite prominent and they didn't like that word. So he called them "combatants", they were okay with that word he told us. Now some people I know would be furious at that, they're terrorists pure and simple and no other word should be allowed to dignify them. I know others who see them differently, indeed they perhaps even view some of them honourably.

 

Words matter and how people take their meanings matter. Whether you mean it or not, indeed whether those singing it mean it or not, the word 'Fenian' is taken to mean Roman Catholic by many, many people, that's just a fact. On that tour yesterday, towards the bottom of the Crumlin Road there was republican graffiti. Amateur stuff, not the organised murals, just spray paint marking territory. It caught my eye because it contained the short three letter phrase "KAH". That's an abbreviation for "Kill All Huns" and you'll see it throughout Republican areas of Northern Ireland. There are people here who'll tell you that the word 'Hun' isn't sectarian, they'll give you some convoluted meaning, saying it can't be sectarian because they use against Novo and McCann. But be sure that the guy who wrote that phrase on that wall in that particular area meant it to be sectarian, he meant 'Protestants' when he wrote it. The meaning of words changes, and there's very little any of us can do about it, accept it and move on. 

[Gonzo79 15,294]

A very reasonable post.  I have no issues with anything you say, other than that particular word has minimal religious links, as far as I'm concerned (it refers to an ideology, which I find objectionable - a united Ireland).  But I take your points on board.  

 

For the record, I have never referred to Clark as one.  And I was accused, in court, of calling someone one when I did no such thing.  So it's an issue I take a keen interest in.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Gonzo79

[917 191]

It’s not just about certain words anyway. Recently I have heard sick chants about Tommy Burns, and Scott Brown’s sister, both of whom died of cancer. Beyond belief, especially considering some or all of those doing these chants must have lost family members to the same disease. But it’s all about trying to shock. And in this day and age, with cameras & recording devices literally everywhere & the media taking a perverse interest in this sort of behaviour (which happens at every club) then its probably time for it to stop.

[barca72 440]

16 hours ago, BlackSocksRedTops said:

When this topic is raised I'm always amazed that the issue of new fans is not addressed. Some tend to dwell on the negatives and how stopping these songs will somehow lose our core fan base. What about the opposite? What about young kids who are not being promoted through traditional family allegiances? What about fans who want to return and are tired of the FTP nonsense?

 

With the advent of a global EPL on our doorsteps and the daily exposure to elite European football, it's hard enough to attract new fans. This stuff just makes it harder IMO.

https://talksport.com/football/efl/446887/top-clubs-uk-highest-attendance-201819-season-tottenham-leeds-derby-sunderland-aston-villa-nottingham-forest-newcastle-liverpool-arsenal-celtic-rangers/

 

We're really suffering, eh?

 

 

You can see the results below…

---

20. Derby County – 28,114 vs Birmingham City (November 3, 2018)

19. Nottingham Forest – 29,427 vs Norwich City (October 20, 2018)

18. Brighton and Hove Albion – 30,592 vs Fulham (September 1, 2018)

17. Southampton – 30,784 vs Burnley (August 12, 2018)

16. Leicester City – 32,184 vs Burnley (November 10, 2018)

 

16. Sunderland – 32,193 vs Oxford (September 1, 2018)

14. Cardiff City – 32,321 vs Manchester City (September 22, 2018)

13. Leeds United – 35,417 vs Middlesbrough (August 31, 2018)

12. Everton – 39,161 vs West Ham (September 16, 2018)

11. Chelsea – 40,499 vs Cardiff (September 15, 2018)

10. Aston Villa – 41,326 vs Swansea City (October 20, 2018)

9. Rangers – 50,130 vs Dundee (September 15, 2018)

4

Ibrox has been packed with people wanting to see Steven Gerrard’s side in action

8. Newcastle United – 51,749 vs Tottenham (August 11, 2018)

7. Liverpool – 53,457 vs Southampton (September 22, 2018)

6. Manchester City – 54,316 vs Manchester United (November 11, 2018)

5. West Ham – 56,9947 vs Wolves (September 1, 2018)

4. Celtic – 59,143 vs Aberdeen (September 29, 2018)

 

3. Arsenal – 60,030 vs Wolves (November 11, 2018)

2. Manchester United – 74,525 vs Everton (October 28, 2018)

1. Tottenham Hotspur – 80,188 vs Liverpool (September 15, 2018)

[ian1964 10,724]