Club statement today

[barca72 440]

1 hour ago, buster. said:

The future will be better if we drop some of the now embarrassing baggage from the past.

 

Back in the 70's I'd sing all the songs but I now cringe when I hear them. Not only is it embarrassing that grown men feel the need to do it but it's self-harming as far as the club is concerned, never mind individually.

 

IIRC you wrote a fair bit about the O.O. when those threads were up in the Lounge. If your opinion here is intertwined with the O.O. maybe they along with the RC church, are indeed part of the problem and society would be better off without both.

 

The RC Church has major issues with headline industrial scale child rape but what are the Scottish newspapers talking about ?.....Rangers supporters singing songs within a sectarian problem. Politically, we don't have a scooby doo.

 

I hope you are not comparing the OO(a religious organization, relatively trouble free), with the RC church which sustains and protects child abusers and is currently looked upon as a cult.
The fact that the SMSM talks more about the rangers fans singing, in their eyes, sectarian songs than publishing in-depth investigative articles about child abuse in that cult does not help your argument.
They are not similar organizations, hence they should not be directly compared in a discussion. And no, my opinion here is not intertwined with the OO because it doesn't advocate for anyone to sing at the football.
I don't think that the "sectarian/bigotry" problem is any different than it has been in decades. The only difference is in the way it is being reported - a lot more biased - in paper, radio & television.
The longer this imbalance of treatment continues the longer the problem will be maintained. Closing down a few '******' songs here will only work if an avalanche of IRAoke sungs are acted upon at the east end and whenever their fans travel.
They tried to kill us so I don't think the dignified silence will work anymore, however, if the field gets levelled a bit then so too will attitudes to singing and self-policing will prevail.

[buster. 5,199]

6 minutes ago, barca72 said:

I hope you are not comparing the OO(a religious organization, relatively trouble free), with the RC church which sustains and protects child abusers and is currently looked upon as a cult.
The fact that the SMSM talks more about the rangers fans singing, in their eyes, sectarian songs than publishing in-depth investigative articles about child abuse in that cult does not help your argument.
They are not similar organizations, hence they should not be directly compared in a discussion. And no, my opinion here is not intertwined with the OO because it doesn't advocate for anyone to sing at the football.
I don't think that the "sectarian/bigotry" problem is any different than it has been in decades. The only difference is in the way it is being reported - a lot more biased - in paper, radio & television.
The longer this imbalance of treatment continues the longer the problem will be maintained. Closing down a few '******' songs here will only work if an avalanche of IRAoke sungs are acted upon at the east end and whenever their fans travel.
They tried to kill us so I don't think the dignified silence will work anymore, however, if the field gets levelled a bit then so too will attitudes to singing and self-policing will prevail.

You don't seem to get it or realise that the difference (like it or not) are those decades and current reality.

 

Put bluntly and generally, stop playing the victim regards the songs and simply stop singing them.

Then we'd see where that would take us. At this point we'd have to wake-up politically and start being savvy or just be kept in a similar place under a different charge.

 

 

[Bluedell 5,627]

We did largely manage to get rid of most of the problem words and songs for a while around 2011 but they did creep back due to the continued bigotry from the other side of the city. It's actually pathetic that Rangers fans would allow their standards to be set by reference to Celtic and their fans. 

 

Self-policing? How would that work? 

 

Is the closeness of the timing of this statement and the communication to the UBs just coincidence?

[pete 2,499]

5 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

We did largely manage to get rid of most of the problem words and songs for a while around 2011 but they did creep back due to the continued bigotry from the other side of the city. It's actually pathetic that Rangers fans would allow their standards to be set by reference to Celtic and their fans. 

 

Self-policing? How would that work? 

 

Is the closeness of the timing of this statement and the communication to the UBs just coincidence?

I certainly wouldn't tell anyone who is pumped up on Adrenaline and at the most extreme drugs and alcohol to stop singing. I suppose the best way would be to make a video and report it at a later time. It may be shutting the stable door at that minute but it would be the safest way.

[Pensively Staring 46]

1 hour ago, barca72 said:

I hope you are not comparing the OO(a religious organization, relatively trouble free), with the RC church which sustains and protects child abusers and is currently looked upon as a cult.
The fact that the SMSM talks more about the rangers fans singing, in their eyes, sectarian songs than publishing in-depth investigative articles about child abuse in that cult does not help your argument.
They are not similar organizations, hence they should not be directly compared in a discussion. And no, my opinion here is not intertwined with the OO because it doesn't advocate for anyone to sing at the football.
I don't think that the "sectarian/bigotry" problem is any different than it has been in decades. The only difference is in the way it is being reported - a lot more biased - in paper, radio & television.
The longer this imbalance of treatment continues the longer the problem will be maintained. Closing down a few '******' songs here will only work if an avalanche of IRAoke sungs are acted upon at the east end and whenever their fans travel.
They tried to kill us so I don't think the dignified silence will work anymore, however, if the field gets levelled a bit then so too will attitudes to singing and self-policing will prevail.

So the Catholic Church is a cult but Free Masonry isn't.... Aye OK then. 

[der Berliner 3,745]

The one important thing here is that WE and the club should be pro-active in the process and say which songs are acceptable. There was a songbook in days gone by, dunno, whether it included songs of Ulster heritage. You can check the list of proscribed organisation in Briatin and know that the UVF et al are equally proscribed as the IRA is. Thus, "Here lies a soldier" would probably not appear in a Rangers Song Book. Derry's Walls, Build my gallows, A loyal heart et al would be fine though.

 

Not that there aren`t enough Rangers songs, i.e. football songs, which should be sung instead. When this came up after the UEFA song fiasco, I collected 40odd Rangers football songs of days gone by and present alone.

 

As for Catholic church, Free Masonry and "cults", the religion is called Christianity, anything that comes on a lower level, Anglican church, Protestants, Catholics et al ... are IMHO simply sects ....

 

A sect is a subgroup of a religious, political, or philosophical belief system, usually an offshoot of a larger group. Although the term was originally a classification for religious separated groups, it can now refer to any organization that breaks away from a larger one to follow a different set of rules and principles.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sect#In_Christianity

 

...  even though they have a large following. Obviously, members of these sects usually disagree.

[Gonzo79 15,294]

5 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

Derry's Walls, Build my gallows, A loyal heart et al would be fine though.

Wishful thinking.  Those will be next on their list.

 

The songs will get sung today. Try not to get too upset - I realise how ruinous a nasty word can be for the thin skinned. The vast majority of Scots won't even notice but the usual suspects will be all over it.

[JohnMc 2,754]

I'm guessing here but I think the club has decided it's time to publicly address this as part of a new strategy to eradicate it or, be seen to be trying to. I think this statement, if it's ignored, will be followed up by 'action'. I expect persistent offenders will find season tickets being cancelled, perhaps parts of the ground might be closed, very public acts by the club to demonstrate their anger around this issue. 

 

There are a number of reasons for this. Firstly I genuinely think the directors are deeply embarrassed by it. King in particular must scratch his head and wonder how this can still be happening in 2019. I doubt the Park family are comfortable with it either. 

Secondly it's commercial kryptonite. Nothing repels possible sponsors like an MSP publicly criticising the club for sectarianism. Steve Clarke's recent press conference where him and Boyd spoke about this had one very telling point I thought. The revelation that he was approached by Rangers, or by an intermediary, about the managers job last season was interesting, what was disappointing for me was that he felt he had to ask if he'd be accepted by our support as manager because of his religion. Now I genuinely don't know any Rangers supporter who would reject the signing of any player or manager on the grounds of their religious upbringing. Had Clarke been appointed our manager I think it would have been largely welcomed on the back of what he'd done at Kilmarnock, and any criticism of it might be around his style of play or perhaps not being a big name. But I can genuinely say I doubt anyone on here would have mentioned him being a childhood RC as an issue. Yet he felt it still might be and then a couple of weeks ago he was vindicated in thinking that by the singing of that song at him. That kind of negative publicity gives sponsors sleepless nights. 

 

Thirdly nobody in the media or business world has the stomach to get involved in a 'free speech' debate around this. That fight was lost a long time ago, whether people like it or not. If you want to shout obscenities about the Pope in public then society has already decided you've lost any possible counter argument you might make in mitigation. 

 

Fourthly, and most importantly, I believe this no longer represents the support as a whole. Most of us left this stuff behind a long time ago. The Roman Catholic church is no threat to our way of life today (if it ever was), like most organised religions here it's struggling to engage with people and it has systemic issues around child abuse, treatment of woman and abuse of power. It's slowly killing itself, it doesn't need someone tanked up on Buckfast belting out about Fenians to push it over the edge. 

 

Be under no illusions though, if we want the club to stick up for the support when we're unfairly treated by the media or politicians, we need to accept that the club will also have to criticise and punish those who still indulge in the FTP bollocks. The club has recently shown a willingness to take on our enemies, it would be good if us as a support recognised what we can do to help them, rather than hand a loaded gun to those who hate us and paint big targets on our backs. 

[Bill 13,717]

Sometimes it can be very difficult to move on in any aspect of life and this issue is essentially an analogue for the entire human condition. People are vastly more diverse than you will ever see on the surface and place entirely different emphasis on habitual behaviour.

 

Some people have shallow roots and don't give shit what they say or do, changing with the wind. Of the majority with a conscience, some are just better equipped than others to embrace change and to see the bigger picture, particularly the picture that has yet to be painted. In any random group of people there will always be those who cling to old familiar habits and view change as a betrayal of principle and will resist it at almost any cost.

 

The question is, when the status quo has become unacceptable, how do you set about converting the intransigent few whose personal preferences are holding back everyone. If they won't themselves see the need to change, is it fair that they should hold back the majority. The minority also have rights but not the right to deny the majority. Maybe, for the sake of everyone else involved, it's time those who just cannot give up their "fenían songs" just found something else to do on a Saturday. If faced with such a choice, I believe we'd find their numbers are a lot smaller than some think.

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,752]

Some fantastic posts on here.