Petition To Get James Dornan Removed From Anti Sectarian Group

[Gaffer 1,665]

17 hours ago, Bluedell said:

Club 1872 statement

 

Dear Member,

On 23rd February, James Dornan MSP, during a Twitter exchange in which he misrepresented the Club 1872 position on unacceptable behaviour, made the false allegation that “Club 1872 abuse me regularly on their website." This statement by Mr Dornan was an outright lie.

Club 1872 has not mentioned him on our website, let alone subjected him to regular “abuse”. We wrote to Mr Dornan, giving him the opportunity to delete his tweet and to make a public apology but we have received no response and no apology has been forthcoming. It is completely unacceptable for an elected representative to make demonstrably false accusations about our organisation or its individual directors, all of whom are volunteers. Mr Dornan’s risible attempts to ‘combat sectarianism’ by smearing groups and individuals, undermines genuine and sincere work against prejudice and discrimination. In doing so he raises questions not only of his competence to be Convenor of the Cross Party Group on Combatting SectarIanism but also of his fitness for public office at any level. We do not believe that Mr Dornan is a fit and proper person to act as convener of that group and we will now write to his colleagues to request his removal. It is incomprehensible that Mr Dornan was able to take up this position in the first place given his selective approach to sectarian issues - including an incident where he posed in front of the flag of a proscribed terrorist organisation. We will also contact Rangers to make them aware of this incident and to urge them to be extremely cautious over Mr Dornan’s publicity seeking, public announcement expressing his wish to meet with them.

Rangers and Club 1872 should always engage with any individual or group seeking to genuinely address issues around unacceptable behaviour. We firmly believe that Mr Dornan does not fall into that bracket.

I'm a member of Club 1872 and did so because I just wanted to do something (anything) to reduce the risk of us going through another period like we did recently.  I'd have continued to be a member even though I wasn't convinced about buying shares, seats on the board, etc.  Now however, I'm more committed than ever.  I like the role they are performing on our behalf.  Some of the statements are excellent, focussed, and hard hitting.  Well done!  I really hope that these are the sort of things we all agree on, rally around, and support.  Surely this will convince more of us to support the Club 1872 and become members.  The more members and funding we have, the more opportunities and likelihood to make a difference.  WATP.

[ian1964 10,724]

Responding to their statement, James Dornan said: "If Club 1872 are not responsible for the comments of their followers on their website then I gave a full apology for the misunderstanding.

"However the fact that I call out sectarian abuse in a persistent and consistent manner should not be a reason for anyone serious about combating sectarianism to ask for my removal from the committee, which I set up, because they don’t like some of my comments.

"I’ve met with Celtic, Rangers, the Orange Order, SFA and SPFL and anyone else with a role to play in fighting Sectarianism who are willing to talk to me.

"If Club 1872 wish to meet with me I’d be happy to do so at any suitable time."

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3942514/rangers-club-1872-james-dornan-msp-snp-sectarianism/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1551466443

[der Berliner 3,745]

I'm sure someone has a screenshot of the "attacks" on Dornan at the Club 1872 FB page? Might be he uses the comments as a proof, but those comments can be posted by nigh anyone who is "friend" with the Club 1872 site.

Edited March 2, 2019 by der Berliner

[Bill 13,717]

Issuing statements like this has the benefit of rallying the converted but is usually ineffectual as far as people like Dornan are concerned. All they have to do is issue a counter statement denying any wrongdoing and we’re back to square one. Everything is deniable and the neutrals we need to convince assume it was all a misunderstanding. I’m afraid if we want to back these bastards into a corner and make a practical difference then we’ll need to up our game considerably.

[Charles Kiniev 4]

I’m not a member of this “forum”.

I’m glad this is so, tbh, having read through this thread, I have absolutely no doubts at all that many of the contributors would bore me to death.

 

But, I digress ...

 

The VB did not contribute to, or publish, the petition to remove James Dornan from the “National Anti Sectarianism Group”.

 

It was strictly my own doing.

 

I was present in the thread James Dornan posted on Twitter re: his harrowing ordeal in the fabled saga of the “smash a ******” day email he was supposedly “sent”.

 

I only saw lies, I only saw a sitting MSP who was quite clearly “at it” & was foolish & reckless enough to weaponise the sectarian issue for what, imo, then & now, could only be for personal gain.

 

I called him out, I asked specific questions when his target audience were fawning over him & sending him their sympathy, I pointed out a few inescapable facts that, imo, could only lead to the conclusion that his email ordeal was a total sham.

 

If I’m mistaken, which I don’t believe I am, and I wasn’t in fact the first to publicly state my disbelief of his story, I’m quite sure it wouldn’t have taken others too long to reach the same conclusion I had, let’s be honest, it was very poorly contrived, if it could be questioned & doubted so soon into the charade, well, the chances of it ever standing up to serious, directed questioning was very slim indeed.

 

He was not pleased when I stated my doubts, from the tone of his tweets, it seemed to me that he was enjoying the attention & was very pleased to be receiving it.

 

I was quickly rounded on by the usual suspect types, as does of course occur in twitter, they leapt to his defence but, I stood my ground, stated again my opinions & reiterated that imo, James Dornan was taking the piss, & he was manipulating the sectarian issue to do so.

 

What happened with that particular episode ? tbh, it doesn’t really matter, imo, it was a poor attempt in political manoeuvring at a time where a “sympathy vote” could have been very useful to the MSP for Cathcart in the SNP deputy leadership race, but who knows ?.

 

Im in absolutely no doubt at all that the subsequent negativity he received on twitter & other platforms was a factor in changing his tune re: the sectarian email.

 

Nothing much was said or heard about it after the initial furore, he received a fairly hard time over his claims, others obviously reaching their own conclusions had by then added their thoughts to the mix, & whether there ever was any substance to the claim or not, the issue was pretty much dead in the water.

 

It was no surprise at all to see the same media outlet & journalist publishing another online piece 2 months later, where the MSP clumsily, & with little in the way of imagination, backtracked on his initial claims.

 

Since then, ive listened to what the MSP has to say & i came to the conclusion months ago that James Dornan was, imo, an extremely disreputable individual & entirely unsuited for the office he holds, but in his defence, so many “politicians” are these days.

 

Basically, I concluded that being a nasty, poisonous, wee man with very questionable morals was, for a politician, & especially one who was an SNP member, essential, & not in the slightest unlawful, so, why bother with him ?

 

Simply because, imo, he really is not a fit & proper person to be the convener of an Anti Sectarianism Group which can, & will, influence & dictate Scottish policy on sectarianism at the National level.

 

The petition itself is irrelevant, as was pointed out, the group in question does not exist under that name, those who have taken issue with the fact that the petition was improperly titled will, if they have looked to see for themselves, know that the group in question has, according to its official ScotGov website entry, met only once, in June 2018, to constitute the group & set the ball rolling.

 

It hasn’t officially met since then & has no date established for any further meetings, in essence, though the group consists of 4 SNP MSP’s & 1 Labour MSP, for all intents & purposes, any statements made in this groups name are very likely reflective of the personal opinions of one man only, James Dornan, & by extension, the SNP, & not, as many may be led to believe, an opinion formed by an impartial group who have been meeting & discussing the sectarianism issue, seeking the views of other interested parties & formulating a progressive policy designed to help alleviate the sectarianism issue in Scotland.

 

The Anti Sectarianism Group is more or less a group in name only, so I had no qualms about titling the petition as I did, I was quite sober when I published it & ive never in my life drank buckfast, I prefer a more subtle vintage.

 

I had titled it as I did simply to illustrate to anyone unfamiliar with the issue of the breadth & scope that this “group” would look to extend its influence towards, so I send my apologies to those who misunderstood my intentions.

 

The petition in itself is useless.

 

It was published with the sole intent of raising public awareness of the actions of James Dornan, to shine the spotlight on his many lies, & to be a focal point to encourage debate on the issue as a whole, with the intention it be brought forth anytime anyone felt that the MSP was again stepping over the line & others should be made aware of his latest deeds, the point of the petition was, fundamentally, simply to get people talking at pivotal moments &, more importantly, to get people thinking.

 

People are intelligent, some, of course, more than others, but, I’ve always found that everyone gets there in the end eventually.

 

So ...

 

I thank you all for stepping up & doing your part in highlighting the actions & intentions of James Dornan by discussing him in your forum & by doing so, adding your voices to the many voices on other platforms discussing him, & ensuring that others continue to keep thinking about what’s really going on wherever the MSP for Glasgow Cathcart is involved.

 

Regards

 

CK

 

 

 

 

 

[Gaffer 1,665]

6 minutes ago, Charles Kiniev said:

I’m not a member of this “forum”.

I’m glad this is so, tbh, having read through this thread, I have absolutely no doubts at all that many of the contributors would bore me to death.

 

But, I digress ...

 

The VB did not contribute to, or publish, the petition to remove James Dornan from the “National Anti Sectarianism Group”.

 

It was strictly my own doing.

 

I was present in the thread James Dornan posted on Twitter re: his harrowing ordeal in the fabled saga of the “smash a ******” day email he was supposedly “sent”.

 

I only saw lies, I only saw a sitting MSP who was quite clearly “at it” & was foolish & reckless enough to weaponise the sectarian issue for what, imo, then & now, could only be for personal gain.

 

I called him out, I asked specific questions when his target audience were fawning over him & sending him their sympathy, I pointed out a few inescapable facts that, imo, could only lead to the conclusion that his email ordeal was a total sham.

 

If I’m mistaken, which I don’t believe I am, and I wasn’t in fact the first to publicly state my disbelief of his story, I’m quite sure it wouldn’t have taken others too long to reach the same conclusion I had, let’s be honest, it was very poorly contrived, if it could be questioned & doubted so soon into the charade, well, the chances of it ever standing up to serious, directed questioning was very slim indeed.

 

He was not pleased when I stated my doubts, from the tone of his tweets, it seemed to me that he was enjoying the attention & was very pleased to be receiving it.

 

I was quickly rounded on by the usual suspect types, as does of course occur in twitter, they leapt to his defence but, I stood my ground, stated again my opinions & reiterated that imo, James Dornan was taking the piss, & he was manipulating the sectarian issue to do so.

 

What happened with that particular episode ? tbh, it doesn’t really matter, imo, it was a poor attempt in political manoeuvring at a time where a “sympathy vote” could have been very useful to the MSP for Cathcart in the SNP deputy leadership race, but who knows ?.

 

Im in absolutely no doubt at all that the subsequent negativity he received on twitter & other platforms was a factor in changing his tune re: the sectarian email.

 

Nothing much was said or heard about it after the initial furore, he received a fairly hard time over his claims, others obviously reaching their own conclusions had by then added their thoughts to the mix, & whether there ever was any substance to the claim or not, the issue was pretty much dead in the water.

 

It was no surprise at all to see the same media outlet & journalist publishing another online piece 2 months later, where the MSP clumsily, & with little in the way of imagination, backtracked on his initial claims.

 

Since then, ive listened to what the MSP has to say & i came to the conclusion months ago that James Dornan was, imo, an extremely disreputable individual & entirely unsuited for the office he holds, but in his defence, so many “politicians” are these days.

 

Basically, I concluded that being a nasty, poisonous, wee man with very questionable morals was, for a politician, & especially one who was an SNP member, essential, & not in the slightest unlawful, so, why bother with him ?

 

Simply because, imo, he really is not a fit & proper person to be the convener of an Anti Sectarianism Group which can, & will, influence & dictate Scottish policy on sectarianism at the National level.

 

The petition itself is irrelevant, as was pointed out, the group in question does not exist under that name, those who have taken issue with the fact that the petition was improperly titled will, if they have looked to see for themselves, know that the group in question has, according to its official ScotGov website entry, met only once, in June 2018, to constitute the group & set the ball rolling.

 

It hasn’t officially met since then & has no date established for any further meetings, in essence, though the group consists of 4 SNP MSP’s & 1 Labour MSP, for all intents & purposes, any statements made in this groups name are very likely reflective of the personal opinions of one man only, James Dornan, & by extension, the SNP, & not, as many may be led to believe, an opinion formed by an impartial group who have been meeting & discussing the sectarianism issue, seeking the views of other interested parties & formulating a progressive policy designed to help alleviate the sectarianism issue in Scotland.

 

The Anti Sectarianism Group is more or less a group in name only, so I had no qualms about titling the petition as I did, I was quite sober when I published it & ive never in my life drank buckfast, I prefer a more subtle vintage.

 

I had titled it as I did simply to illustrate to anyone unfamiliar with the issue of the breadth & scope that this “group” would look to extend its influence towards, so I send my apologies to those who misunderstood my intentions.

 

The petition in itself is useless.

 

It was published with the sole intent of raising public awareness of the actions of James Dornan, to shine the spotlight on his many lies, & to be a focal point to encourage debate on the issue as a whole, with the intention it be brought forth anytime anyone felt that the MSP was again stepping over the line & others should be made aware of his latest deeds, the point of the petition was, fundamentally, simply to get people talking at pivotal moments &, more importantly, to get people thinking.

 

People are intelligent, some, of course, more than others, but, I’ve always found that everyone gets there in the end eventually.

 

So ...

 

I thank you all for stepping up & doing your part in highlighting the actions & intentions of James Dornan by discussing him in your forum & by doing so, adding your voices to the many voices on other platforms discussing him, & ensuring that others continue to keep thinking about what’s really going on wherever the MSP for Glasgow Cathcart is involved.

 

Regards

 

CK

 

 

 

 

 

What an opening statement!!!  You had my support, but no longer.  You clearly have no idea on how to win friends or influence people, and to come on and make such a statement about some of the forum members, and then move into a very long rant (expecting those same members to read it), just shows how out of touch you are.  I won't take as much as a second to read or support anything you do in future.  That's disappointing all round, but I hope you learn from it.

[Bill 13,717]

I thought it was a decent comeback and it’s a shame to miss the point of this by being over-sensitive. Good luck to him and any efforts he’s willing to make to expose the republican rhat Dornan.

[compo 7,046]

At the end of the day it's not going to happen Dornan is now going to bring in a motion at the Edinburgh parliament to introduce strict liability in the next couple of weeks in the hope of having it in place for next season  .

[Charles Kiniev 4]

It was an opening statement & in effect a closing statement

 

i don’t really care what others may think or believe

 

i read through the thread on the petition, it doesn’t bother me that some used it to further their own agendas, as Rangers supporters, I really don’t think it’s neccesary to point out that the man in question does not hold any of us in any particular regard whatsoever.

 

Im not seeking personal support, nor do i intend to contribute to your forum, as I said, like this sectarianism group, the petition itself was just a tool, I don’t care what it actually amounts to.

 

It fulfilled its intended purpose & it will continue to do so, whether you agree or not with it, or me, it will generate discussion, & that’s all it was ever meant to do, if certain members of your forum choose to make an issue based on the petitions title instead of just recognising & acknowledging the basic reasoning behind it, that’s up to them.

 

If, as Rangers fans, we havent recognised by now that the man in question & his party mean us no goodwill whatsoever, well, we’ll deserve whatever we get if we stand by & say & do nothing.

 

Keep people talking, & by extension, thinking.

 

Leave your personal opinions on others at the door & focus on those who mean your club harm instead of those who have it at heart.

 

Infighting is pointless, support groups like the VB, we’re all Rangers supporters, our goals should be one & the same.

 

Have a good day

 

 

 

 

[Gaffer 1,665]

26 minutes ago, Bill said:

I thought it was a decent comeback and it’s a shame to miss the point of this by being over-sensitive. Good luck to him and any efforts he’s willing to make to expose the republican rhat Dornan.

YOU are missing the point Bill.  As a support we should be rallying together to fight against people like Dornan, the BBC, etc, but that is only ever diminished with an opening statement that insults a forum.  It's stupid and self-defeating, and only further reinforces my view that we are unable to unite in the same way the 'other mob' is.  We will continually find reasons to divide our support and ostracise them because of their political and religious beliefs.  It's crazy and frustrating.  I wish we could all see that.

 

I am happy to support anyone who takes aim at our detractors, but not those who insult or divide our support.  Unfortunately we have too many of them.