Selective hearing only fuels sectarian hatred

[DMAA 3,658]

10 minutes ago, Thinker said:

Whether we agree with it or not, the weight of public opinion condemns the use of derogatory terms for a person based on their religion. I've always argued that f***** refers to someone of a particular political opinion, but that doesn't hold water in the case of Clarke. What definition of the word f***** were the section of the support who sang at Clarke using?

Bang on the money there. Some seem to think we need to get the world to change, public opinion on that stuff isn’t going to change so it’s a waste of time to argue that it somehow needs to. Then your point on Clarke just proves the point that even if people understand the word as political it is clearly used purely in reference to religious heritage sometimes. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by DMAA

[ian1964 10,724]

 

[ranger_syntax 4,325]

Think there are quite a few things King can do before he does that.

[cooponthewing 1,139]

1 hour ago, ian1964 said:

 

Will they close down the whole of St Pats Park the Leckie? I hope leckie is saving his pennies as what will he do when his job in the MSM is over in a few years? Another who is paying his way at our expense.

[DMAA 3,658]

2 hours ago, ian1964 said:

 

That's the reward he gets for speaking out. 

[der Berliner 3,745]

Read quite a bit of people saying it is not about "whattaboutery" and we shoudl stop our songs first etc..

 

Gernerally, we don't need TBB or FTP in this day and age, so could just as easily stop singing that. Yet, e.g. over here in Germany we take great pains to remove plastic bags and plastic bottles now, saving the oceans, Earth and all that. And we will close down coal mines and coal-powerplants (well, up till 2038 ... since no government wants to tackle the 10s of thousands of jobs that will go with that these days). All fair and well. And then you look at countries around us, not to speak world-wide, 50odd of which are currently building coal-power-plants and a dozen or so nuclear power plants. Seperating waste (plastic, bio et al) is an interesting thought for many, but let others do that first. So while we may feel good about doing our best - and rightly so - you do wonder whether that effort is actually worthwhile, if others don`t follow suit?!

 

When it comes to these songs and calls from certain corners to adress that, shouldn`t there be a concerted but likewise reasonable effort being taken? What we see is grenade after grenade lobbed our way, with cries of "sectarianism" being flung about. And you wonder whether those doing it have actually read the definition of the word ... and that it isn't a one-way street either. Furthermore, people doing it should take a step back and look on what they are actually deciding here. These are not public rallies, strikes or call-to-arms. It reaches from football banter (cynical as it may be at times) up to orchestrated political, sectarian and/or bigotted campaigning.

 

There is a rather goo book about football songs out there, "Dicks out 2 - You're not singing anymore?" by Rob Merrills, written in 1997. In there he noted that the Old Firm rivalry has a quite serious approach on certain matters, one you may only encounter again in Northern ireland. Likewise, he also states that the term "mcrocosmos" might be appropriate for Scotland too, given the structure of the game (and, may I add, journalism).

 

When it comes to the Old Firm and us, he makes an indipendent observation, one which clearly shows why we are gettin all the bother with certain sections of the media and politicians:

 

For a book which is largely supposed to illustrate the degree of wit and good humour with which the game is viewed from the terraces, it is a bit of a shock to enter the world of Glasgow`s Old Firm rivalry and, in particular, to look at the songs which illuminate Ibrox Park, home of Rangers. The songs from Celtic are passionate and narrow minded, sure, but the vast majority of them are songs of support for the club or traditions anthems brought over from Ireland (as is the case with some of the Rangers songs) that are supposed to lift the spirits, even if they are almost exclusively about deeds of Irish Republican heroes that the supporters of other clubs would regard as no more than criminals. There are epic songs about the illustrious history of the club and its players, but at Ibrox, the whole thing takes on a far darker aspect. Hatred, pure and simple, is what a great many Rangers songs are all about. There is a hatred for Celtic on a national basis - an essentially Irish club that came to dominate the game in Scotland, there is hatred for the supporters - the immigrant workers who crossed the Irish Sea and poured into Glasgow, there is hatred for the religion and belief that those supporters hold dear and there is hatred toward the team itself - the only other outfit which has consistently been able to challenge Rangers' supremacy over the years. And, of course, there is a hatred borne out of the Northern Ireland situation, which has really come from the common detestation of the people of the Irish Republic which is shared by Rangers supporters and Protestants in Ulster in spite of there being a lack of the sort of personal involvement which is evident at Parkhead.

 

...

I was born under a Union Jack

I was born under a Union Jack

Do you know where hell is?

Hell is in The Falls,

Heaven is in the Shankill Road

And we'll guard Old Derry's Walls.

 

So, I was born under a Union Jack,

I was born under a Union Jack,

Chapels were made for burning,

Catholics go to hell,

Proddies go to heaven

And it's just as fucking well.

I was born under a Union Jack

A Union, Union Jack.

 

... and there is obviously also Derry's Walls, TBB, No Pope of Rome, "I married a F'enian, her name was McGuire", Heroes of the UVF et al.

 

Rob Merrills, Dicks out 2, p. 279f

Dicks Out 2 - You're Not Singing Any More?: Unique Guide to British Football Songs

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dicks-Out-Singing-British-Football/dp/0952661039/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1551092223&sr=1-2&keywords=Rob+Merrills

 

... and how do you argue for this? Well, obviously, that was in the late 90s and over the years, I would say that much of the "hatred" at games et al - apart from the hardcore folk which every club has - has toned down and became rather moderate, reserved for certain games only. Likewise, it has to be said that some of these songs also share that same level of "feeling togetherness" that other songs sung at football matches have, like Liverpool's "You`ll never walk alone". And many people wouldn`t think about a trip to Ulster when belting out Derry's Walls. Same as hardly any Frenchman has blood in his mind when airing their national anthem.

 

The great problem we have is that our songs and pro-British stance have been taken out of the football context and being instrumentalized by both our enemies beyond the Clyde, as well as quite a few people of public and olitical importance, who may actually have no real interest in the game as such, but use us to further their agenda and standing in the public.

 

Unless we sort the perception and understanding  of our songs out, but likewise tackle agenda-driven campaigning, we fight a lost cause. And here it comes to whataboutery too. You can't have us being demonized as sectarian and bigotted over songs that hardly carry a viable and active meaning for about 95 % who sing them on the one hand. While on the other, people who go down an outright anti-British and anti-Protestant route receive a soft-soft or non-attention whatsoever. There are no suppressed masses ior minorities n Scotland that need to be freed or liberated ... a topic where all big parties shy away from ... while campaigners like Docherty et al get a free reign in the press. But there is a clear legislation against the support of terrorism (in songs as well as deeds) at hand, that seemingly does not count in Scotland ... which is still a part of Britain?

 

So if there is no open and even-handed debate in Scotland, go a step further and utilize the British Government ... ministries, not MPs embroiled in that mad Brexit stuff.

 

But whatever you (I'm no Briton, so can`t say "we") do, start to do it on the front-foot. For years, we (if at all) have been reactive ... and most wailing happened on football boards, while the enemy e.g. utilized the media machine to perfection.

[craig 5,199]

5 hours ago, RANGERRAB said:

The focus could never ‘be Shone on them’ because they have all their placemen in the media & media organisations to prevent this happening.

 

 

Of course it could.  Clean up your own house and then when they simply cannot control their own songbook you subtly place comment in the media.

 

One thing is for sure - we continue with our own songbook and it will never be shone on them - and only partially to do with their media placemen, but just as much, if not moreso, because we don't know how to box clever.

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,752]

3 minutes ago, craig said:

Of course it could.  Clean up your own house and then when they simply cannot control their own songbook you subtly place comment in the media.

 

One thing is for sure - we continue with our own songbook and it will never be shone on them - and only partially to do with their media placemen, but just as much, if not moreso, because we don't know how to box clever.

Agree 100%.

[craig 5,199]

2 hours ago, cooponthewing said:

Will they close down the whole of St Pats Park the Leckie? I hope leckie is saving his pennies as what will he do when his job in the MSM is over in a few years? Another who is paying his way at our expense.

See, whilst I agree with you - the bigger issue, for us, is getting our own house in order.  Do that and then go after the likes of Leckie and ask if they still want that.

 

In fact, clear up our own house and we could willingly request strict liability - and when Celtic complain about strict liability we can ask why not ?  If they don't have a songbook problem then surely they don't have an issue with strict liability either.....

[Bill 13,717]

1 minute ago, craig said:

See, whilst I agree with you - the bigger issue, for us, is getting our own house in order.  Do that and then go after the likes of Leckie and ask if they still want that.

 

In fact, clear up our own house and we could willingly request strict liability - and when Celtic complain about strict liability we can ask why not ?  If they don't have a songbook problem then surely they don't have an issue with strict liability either.....

You're right ... but I think also wrong. We DO need to get our own house in order but the only ones we'll be doing it for are ourselves. The notion that it would have the slightest effect of the Leckies of this world seems very dubious. They might not condemn us for singing songs but they will certainly continue to disparage us over some other issue. They haven't hounded Morelos over sectarianism but they still do their damnedest to have him suspended and his reputation tarnished. It wasn't singing TBB that appointed Compliance Officers who have demonstrably favoured our main rival. And it wasn't calling opposition managers sad ****** bastards that led to a BBC boycott of reporting from Ibrox.