match thread (image) [FT] Spartak 4 - 3 Rangers (Eremenko o.g. 5; Candeias 27; Middleton 42)

[Rousseau 10,634]

2 minutes ago, DMAA said:

I haven't watched the goals conceded over, however you can't blame the attacking left winger for not tracking that full back. Flanagan was out of position and out of line with the back line. For me the full back should not get sucked in like that and leave a big gap for the opposition full back to exploit. We have defensive midfielders for a reason and if the opposition winger moves inside you (as a full back) tell the defensive midfielder he's in your zone now, I'm staying in my position so that the defensive keeps it's shape.

Yes, or a central midfielder covers across -- which I did mention. 

 

Ostensibly, it's still Middleton's man, IMO. 

[DMAA 3,658]

Just now, Rousseau said:

Yes, or a central midfielder covers across -- which I did mention. 

 

Ostensibly, it's still Middleton's man, IMO. 

Perhaps so, I'll have to watch it again. My initial reaction watching it, and as a full back myself, was why are you so out of line with your defence and so central. Full back's 101 is don't leave a gaping hole on your side of the defence and pass men on if they leave your zone.

[Rousseau 10,634]

16 minutes ago, DMAA said:

Perhaps so, I'll have to watch it again. My initial reaction watching it, and as a full back myself, was why are you so out of line with your defence and so central. Full back's 101 is don't leave a gaping hole on your side of the defence and pass men on if they leave your zone.

Only if you're playing zonal. The Aberdeen FB's were following our wingers everywhere. 

 

I don't think he was way out of line -- I would need to see it again, though.

 

Middleton has shown several times that he lacks that defensive side of his game. 

[buster. 5,196]

1 hour ago, Frankie said:

The most important thing is we bounce back on Sunday and go into the international break with some renewed confidence.  Hopefully after that fortnight off, we'll also have guys like Barisic and Lafferty fit to help give the side a better balance.

The International break is perhaps an opportunity to deeply drill the team into being able to effectively use a 3-5-2 of occasion.

[Frankie 8,562]

9 minutes ago, buster. said:

The International break is perhaps an opportunity to deeply drill the team into being able to effectively use a 3-5-2 of occasion.

Hindsight maybe but I think the manager should have considered that at half-time last night - or at least bringing on Jack to better protect the back four.

 

FWIW, I think had he had more than 60secs between the third and fourth Spartak goals, the manager would probably have done something along those lines but after going behind he had to stick with the attacking outlook.

[buster. 5,196]

Just now, Frankie said:

Hindsight maybe but I think the manager should have considered that at half-time last night - or at least bringing on Jack to better protect the back four.

 

FWIW, I think had he had more than 60secs between the third and fourth Spartak goals, the manager would probably have done something along those lines but after going behind he had to stick with the attacking outlook.

I get the feeling our central defenders need some training ground drilling before they'll be at all comfortable playing the system.

 

I look at McAuley and wonder if he could be an experienced head within the three. I don't know if he's played the system much in his career or indeed, how he's shaping up in training.

 

Tav and Barisic were born to play the 3-5-2 and I still think a Lafferty/Morelos would create havoc with decent supply.

 

 

 

 

[DMAA 3,658]

26 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I don't think he was way out of line -- I would need to see it again, though.

 

Middleton has shown several times that he lacks that defensive side of his game. 

I've re-watched it and I stand by Flanagan being more culpable. The full back had been passed on to Flanagan and it's clear he was aware of it, however despite the fact that the full back was running at full pace Flanagan remained flat footed and the inevitable through ball was played through and he had already lost 5 yards. Poor anticipation of the play as much as poor positioning.

 

Middleton could have man-marked the full back but tried to close down Popov who was in acres of space and had loads of time to pick the pass. Have to say surely a centre midfielder should have been on Popov and not allowed him to play that pass in the first place. If Popov had been marked Middleton wouldn't have ran in to close him down, and more crucially the pass would never have been played.

Edited November 9, 2018 by DMAA

[DMAA 3,658]

11 minutes ago, DMAA said:

I've re-watched it and I stand by Flanagan being more culpable. The full back had been passed on to Flanagan and it's clear he was aware of it, however despite the fact that the full back was running at full pace Flanagan remained flat footed and the inevitable through ball was played through and he had already lost 5 yards. Poor anticipation of the play as much as poor positioning.

 

Middleton could have man-marked the full back but tried to close down Popov who was in acres of space and had loads of time to pick the pass. Have to say surely a centre midfielder should have been on Popov and not allowed him to play that pass in the first place. If Popov had been marked Middleton wouldn't have ran in to close him down, and more crucially the pass would never have been played.

And by the way even if Middleton had chosen to man-mark rather than close down Popov I think he'd have passed him on to Flanagan because Flanagan's man had gone inside and Flanagan had in fact passed him on. He was in the left back position but hadn't quite got in line. The lack of anticipation was definitely more of an issue.

Edited November 9, 2018 by DMAA

[Rousseau 10,634]

@DMAA -- For me, Flanagan is marking the winger (?), Middleton is on the FB and there's a RCM in there too.

 

Middleton should be quicker to the RCM -- Coulibaly too, to be fair -- because he becomes the danger; Flanagan passes him on to Middleton.  

 

I still think Middleton leaves Flanagan way too exposed.  

 

I'm not saying Flanagan is blameless, but he's been given a really difficult situation to deal with and he's not quite quick enough to spot it; it is an exceptional ball too.

 

It's a moot point anyway if Goldson clears it properly!

[DMAA 3,658]

3 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Middleton should be quicker to the RCM

Agree with that. However if the centre midfielders had been tighter on by far Spartak's most dangerous player he wouldn't have been sucked in at all.

 

4 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I still think Middleton leaves Flanagan way too exposed.   

 

I'm not saying Flanagan is blameless, but he's been given a really difficult situation to deal with and he's not quite quick enough to spot it; it is an exceptional ball too.

I think the previous point mitigates it for Middleton because he's given a decision to make whether to stay on a full back who hasn't made a run yet or close down Spartak's best player who is in acres of space and weighing up a pass.

 

I also still think the man has been fairly passed on to Flanagan who isn't marking anyone and is in the left back position. If he's been left with 2 men to mark the points stands.

 

8 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

It's a moot point anyway if Goldson clears it properly!

Definitely. I'm just defending Middleton because I think he gets a hard time on here in that the slightest perceived defensive lapse is picked up on, despite the fact Candeias is the only winger in history I've seen defend to those standards. Modern winger's are far more used to being treated as left or right forwards and not man markers in a traditional 4-4-2.