Rangers staff risk stoking sectarianism hints Glasgow council boss Susan Aitken

[stewarty 2,025]

To refer back to my previous question about why a politician might withhold his footballing allegiance in order to further his career, I would draw parallels to my own support of Rangers.

I grew up in the Scottish Borders and much of the realities of West of Scotland life in terms of any religious divide passed me by as its largely irrelevant down in Rugger country.  My Dad is a Rangers fan and grew up in the west coast and I got my love of our team from him, pestering for tops and being football daft from as young as I can remember.

 

However, despite being baptised, neither I nor my family are in any way religious.  It was the done thing at the time I guess but we never went voluntarily, only on the odd occasion did we set foot in a church when invited to a wedding or attending a funeral.  

We were not a political family either, although I did take a keen interest through my teens and still do to varying degrees depending on how engaged I am on specific topics, or how jaded I might be with all the referendums and elections we've had in recent years.  I never really knew who my parents voted for - they are working class so would typically view things in terms of "how much is that going to cost me" when looking at the budget and how much a packet of fags or a pint of beer would cost from midnight.

 

Fast forward to today, I find myself in the space that is being vocally criticised by some.  I identify as a Rangers fan first.  I have voted SNP in the past but also for Labour, the Greens and the Liberal Democrats.  My politics is largely left of centre but I consider myself pretty moderate.  However the only fixed view I have on politics is that I will change my view to suit the circumstances as they relate to me.  Hence, my vote is never guaranteed to anyone and I would never join a political party for that reason, despite being reasonably well engaged.

 

Not having grown up in a family or social setting that was Loyalist or influenced by NI politics, I don't identify with those elements of Rangers fan.  I voted yes in 2014 but not for any reasons based on identity, but from (in my view), a pragmatic sense that Scotland would do a better job of running our affairs long term than an increasingly remote Westminster.   [NB - I'm not attempting to re-hash any arguments on this, just giving some context] 

 

So from my perspective, I'm not against the union or people who identify as unionists, but I do struggle with aspects of the way support for it is expressed.    I'm not pro- Royalist.   But similarly, I'm not anti-Royalist either.  

 

So when you roll up the various tenets of the stereotypical Rangers fan, i don't sit naturally with many of them, despite a shared love for a football team. Yet I attempt to fit in, to not make an issue of any differences I have with those who have alternative views, to enjoy the cut and thrust of discussion whilst not attempting to be divisive.  I often do this carefully.  I seek to look at both sides of a debate and give a moderate view.

 

So, to bring back to the question - I think political culture is such that it is very personality and issue driven.  Debates are polarised and the effect is a tribal "them and us" scenario whereby the only way to get ahead is to side with one extreme view or another.  To express a moderate and balance view is seen as weak - "you're either with us or against us" springs to mind.  I think we've seen plenty of that in this thread and its disappointing to say the least.  

 

 

[Darthter 542]

12 hours ago, MacK1950 said:

From what I can gather it started on the cancellation of a proposed fan zone at Ibrox by the actions of Glasgow Councilors

The cancellation was actually due to the objection by the Local Community Council.....

[Darthter 542]

From a recent PanelBase opinion poll....a example of the Independence "split" within Rangers supporters...not a lot in it.

 

 

[Gaffer 1,665]

53 minutes ago, Darthter said:

From a recent PanelBase opinion poll....a example of the Independence "split" within Rangers supporters...not a lot in it.

 

 

I think that shows a big difference between us and them.

 

It shows that the Rangers support is almost exactly representative of the country as a whole, whereas Celtic's support seems to be more polarised.  Do you think that's a fair assessment?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Gaffer

[Gaffer 1,665]

51 minutes ago, Darthter said:

The cancellation was actually due to the objection by the Local Community Council.....

This may be true Darther but it doesn't answer the questions raised by the club.

 

Why was the hearing cancelled?  If there were objections, the whole point of a licensing hearing is to air those objections from the community council (and others) and allow a response from the applicant.  This didn't happen.

 

Why did Dornan intervene?  They asked if he had prior examples of intervening in such a manner.

 

And Why did Dornan misrepresent (to the Community Council) the fanzone in such an outrageous fashion (in my opinion) with use of language such as "booze and burgers"?

 

On what basis did Cllr Aitken then accuse Rangers of sectarianism?

 

Why did GCC not fulfil simple FOI requests from Club 1872?

 

Why did Cllr Aitken release private information and then only selected emails onto Twitter and the press?

 

 

There may be good explanations for all of these, but I have yet to see them.  That's why I keep saying that the perception I have at the moment is that there is something dodgy going on which suggests a bias (at the very least).

 

 

[26th of foot 6,082]

1 hour ago, pete said:

Another point is saying Rangers should use the car park for the fanzone when her cronies are hitting the Rangers support with parking restrictions and payments. I guess the council will make a few bob on that.

Maybe they will sell us the football field for a pound.

Over twenty years past, the then Glasgow District Council sold three streets, Janefield Street, Kinloch Street, and Dalriada Street to ra Sellik for a PENNY. This was after the GDC had incurred the costs of resettlement grants, demolition, and land clearance. Ourselves, Partick Thistle, and Queens Park should receive similar deals. I am happy to provide the penny. 

[Walterbear 557]

14 hours ago, Soulsonic5791 said:

Do you reckon the Police have been politicised to such an extent that anything to do with Rangers, whether that be players on the pitch or fans inside and outside stadia, are not afforded the same levels of protection as fans and players of other clubs or are treated differently to their detriment Walterbear?

 

I don’t think the cops are politicised to that level Soul I just think when Rangers are involved they think crowd control as opposed to crowd management. Not sure if that’s coz of our history of volatility such as Manchester, the demographics, match day logistics, scale etc. 

[stewarty 2,025]

19 minutes ago, Gaffer said:

This may be true Darther but it doesn't answer the questions raised by the club.

 

Why was the hearing cancelled?  If there were objections, the whole point of a licensing hearing is to air those objections from the community council (and others) and allow a response from the applicant.  This didn't happen.

 

Why did Dornan intervene?  They asked if he had prior examples of intervening in such a manner.

 

And Why did Dornan misrepresent (to the Community Council) the fanzone in such an outrageous fashion (in my opinion) with use of language such as "booze and burgers"?

 

On what basis did Cllr Aitken then accuse Rangers of sectarianism?

 

Why did GCC not fulfil simple FOI requests from Club 1872?

 

Why did Cllr Aitken release private information and then only selected emails onto Twitter and the press?

 

 

There may be good explanations for all of these, but I have yet to see them.  That's why I keep saying that the perception I have at the moment is that there is something dodgy going on which suggests a bias (at the very least).

 

 

I am in total agreement.  When someone is put on the spot and they double down on the bluster and indignation, its a red flag for me.   

[Walterbear 557]

48 minutes ago, 26th of foot said:

Over twenty years past, the then Glasgow District Council sold three streets, Janefield Street, Kinloch Street, and Dalriada Street to ra Sellik for a PENNY. This was after the GDC had incurred the costs of resettlement grants, demolition, and land clearance. Ourselves, Partick Thistle, and Queens Park should receive similar deals. I am happy to provide the penny. 

Funnily enough that’s the thing that annoyed me most about this. We already use the car park for parking cars surprise surprise and what we are asking for is an opportunity to expand. If any other business asks for land to be rented to expand there services do they just say ‘use what you’ve already got!’  and not bother going through a reasonably transparent discourse. It was dismissive and arrogant, smacks of bias and reflects badly on her skill set. 

 

If I was trying to get one over on someone I’d at least use a bit of skill. This was basically an ‘FU’. 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Walterbear

[Walterbear 557]

1 hour ago, Gaffer said:

I think that shows a big difference between us and them.

 

It shows that the Rangers support is almost exactly representative of the country as a whole, whereas Celtic's support seems to be more polarised.  Do you think that's a fair assessment?

What I don’t get about any of this debate  and the attutude of some Rangers fans to others is why anyone thinks they know what was going through the minds of the founding fathers. I bet they were just wanting a kick about and would have played with and against whoever. 

 

Seriously if the other 51,999 fans at Ibrox dont like or want me there because of what I look like or what my politics are then as far as Im concerned they can all feck off and do something else on a Saturday and I’ll watch Rangers on my own. 

 

So long as I don’t have to put up with BO  then you’re welcome to sit next to me so long as you support the Rangers.