forlanssister 3,114 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Uilleam said: My understanding is that not all the debt (soft loans) will be converted to equity in this share release. A proportion will, and those investments by shareholders directly, rather than a swap, will provide capital, or at very least cash in hand. Future share issue will mop up the remaining soft loans. I could be wrong. Is it complicated by Kings imbroglio with the T/o Panel? Will debt to equity take anyone/any group over the magical 30% ? The "concert party" won't be increasing their stake but will maintain the current percentages. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, forlanssister said: The "concert party" won't be increasing their stake but will maintain the current percentages. Is that mathematically possible? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bill said: Is that mathematically possible? Yes. Check the existing holdings then work out the post issue holdings. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, forlanssister said: Yes. Check the existing holdings then work out the post issue holdings. So, they won’t be buying any shares but will still maintain their percentage holding? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 5,194 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Bill said: So, they won’t be buying any shares but will still maintain their percentage holding? Isn't it about changing the soft loans into equity. They've already put the money in. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bill said: So, they won’t be buying any shares but will still maintain their percentage holding? In this round that appears to be the case, though you could argue that converting loans is buying if you want.. Edited August 20, 2018 by forlanssister 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, forlanssister said: In this round that appears to be the case, though you could argue that converting loans is buying if you want.. The fact is they WILL be increasing their “stake” - the number of shares they own. Otherwise their percentage shareholding would fall. Paying for these new shares by redeeming loans rather than new cash is irrelevant. Converting loans to equity IS buying, by any definition and not just because I want. Thnk of it like this, they pay for the new shares and the company simultaneously gives them the money back as repayment of the loan. Net, effect is cash neutral but they still buy and acquire additional shares in the company. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 57 minutes ago, Bill said: The fact is they WILL be increasing their “stake” - the number of shares they own. Otherwise their percentage shareholding would fall. Paying for these new shares by redeeming loans rather than new cash is irrelevant. Converting loans to equity IS buying, by any definition and not just because I want. Thnk of it like this, they pay for the new shares and the company simultaneously gives them the money back as repayment of the loan. Net, effect is cash neutral but they still buy and acquire additional shares in the company. They are not increasing their "stake" at all they're simply maintaining it which is the point of the exercise. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, forlanssister said: They are not increasing their "stake" at all they're simply maintaining it which is the point of the exercise. I guess it depends on your definitions. As far as I’m concerned, they’re increasing their stake. They’re investing more money and acquiring more shares so they’re increasing their shareholding in the club - their stake? You’re taking “stake” to mean percentage of shares rather than the number and value of those shares. In any case, since not all shareholders are being given an equal option to buy more shares, those who do so must also be increasing their percentage shareholdings. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I guess it depends on your definitions. As far as I’m concerned, they’re increasing their stake. They’re investing more money and acquiring more shares so they’re increasing their shareholding in the club - their stake? You’re taking “stake” to mean percentage of shares rather than the number and value of those shares. In any case, since not all shareholders are being given an equal option to buy more shares, those who do so must also be increasing their percentage shareholdings. Thats mathamatically wrong. Say they are at 25 percent. And we are issuing more shares. They have to get some to stay at 25 percent. Indeed they can get some and drop below 25 percent. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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