Darthter 542 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: This isn't about race, it's about him apparently supporting what is effectively a dictator in all but name. but this is OK??? Our PM, Forgeign Secretary & The Queen "apparently supporting what is effectively a dictator in all but name" 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 1,693 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 That's diplomacy and happens all the time. It doesn't indicate support. What Ozil has done is not diplomacy. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: That's diplomacy and happens all the time. It doesn't indicate support. What Ozil has done is not diplomacy. No-one seemed bothered on any of the previous occasions....which would imply that its more personal. from 2016 from 2011 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: That's diplomacy and happens all the time. It doesn't indicate support. What Ozil has done is not diplomacy. and a footballer meeting with a world leader can't possibly be described as diplomacy??? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,717 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 42 minutes ago, Darthter said: and a footballer meeting with a world leader can't possibly be described as diplomacy??? This isn't about whether he meets with whoever. That's his business. It's about his spineless whining over being criticised and throwing the toys out of his privileged pram by refusing to play for his "own country". Fundamentally, it's about allegiance and national identity. What is does give us a useful insight into is the widespread tendency of immigrants to spend generations denying allegiance to the countries that now support them. You just have to look at the plastic O'Irish community in Scotland, still waving their tricolours at Parkhead in a show of defiance while drawing British benefits. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 29 minutes ago, Bill said: This isn't about whether he meets with whoever. That's his business. It's about his spineless whining over being criticised and throwing the toys out of his privileged pram by refusing to play for his "own country". Fundamentally, it's about allegiance and national identity. What is does give us a useful insight into is the widespread tendency of immigrants to spend generations denying allegiance to the countries that now support them. You just have to look at the plastic O'Irish community in Scotland, still waving their tricolours at Parkhead in a show of defiance while drawing British benefits. but, Ozil isn't flying the Turkish flag...he flies the German one & has worn the National strip proudly. From my reading of it, it appear that the issue is personal towards Ozil, for whatever reason. Arguably the issue that has frustrated me the most over the past couple of months has been the mistreatment from the DFB, and in particular the OPE President Reinhard Grindel. What are the German authorities saying about it??? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 hours ago, JFK-1 said: Erdogan is a pariah like figure throughout Europe and particularly so in the EU which though it doesn't get everything right they're right about him. Ozil might say things like it's just a photograph but he's helping to legitimise and seemingly supporting the activities of Erdogan by appearing in this photograph. This isn't about race, it's about him apparently supporting what is effectively a dictator in all but name. Erdogan met Theresa May and the Queen as well and I am sure photos would have been taken. Did they also legitimize Erdogan and should they also be slated in the same way Ozil has been ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 1,693 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 hours ago, craig said: Erdogan met Theresa May and the Queen as well and I am sure photos would have been taken. Did they also legitimize Erdogan and should they also be slated in the same way Ozil has been ? I already said that's diplomacy and is standard in such situations. It doesn't indicate support. Was Chamberlain supporting Hitler when he entered into dialogue with him? Of course not it was simply standard diplomacy. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo79 15,293 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Ozil's comments about being German when they win but Turkish when they lose reminds me of Scots who moan about about Andy Murray being British when he wins but Scottish when he loses. People will always look for a scapegoat in defeat and Ozil getting his photo taken with Erdogan and saying he has two hearts (one German and one Turkish) hasn't really helped him avoid that. Edited July 23, 2018 by Gonzo79 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jaws 570 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 There are a lot of Turks in urban Germany and the Germans of a particular age generally speak poorly of them. I'd even go as far as to say that they don't particularly like them being there at all. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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