Champions league final

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

5 minutes ago, buster. said:

It probably is in some respects but it doesn't have the best football teams.

 

The EPL's strength is the depth of decent quality teams competing at the top and that provides regular matches for Super Sundays and the like.

We used to be told the top 4 made the EPL the best league in the world. Given the respective CL performances from the big leagues in recent years, this clearly isn't the case anymore. 

 

We were then told the general quality of the EPL outwith the top 4 made it the best league in the world. However, the respective Europa performances from the big leagues in recent years suggests this isn't the case either. 

 

Below Arsenal, there's a lot of dross in that league. Burnley, Everton, Leicester and Newcastle all finished in the top half. These are not good football teams. 

 

P.S. as for your point about teams competing at the top, Man City won by 19 points. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Ser Barristan Selmy

[ranger_syntax 4,325]

6 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

The EPL probably is a better league than La Liga, when it comes to competition.

 

Barcelona and Real Madrid have endless pots of money and a bigger pull factor than any EPL clubs, which is why they are so successful.  I don't like either of them.  European football was better when Dutch, Yugoslavian and even Scottish clubs had a chance.

Radical change is required.

 

I would consider an end to seeding, a return to a knockout format, strict limitation to the loan system and equal access to European competitions for each country.

[Gonzo79 15,294]

When four teams from the big leagues automatically qualify but the champions of Scotland have to play four qualifiers, there's something far wrong*.

 

 

*Hopefully the yahoos go out ASAP.

[buster. 5,198]

20 hours ago, Ser Barristan Selmy said:

We used to be told the top 4 made the EPL the best league in the world. Given the respective CL performances from the big leagues in recent years, this clearly isn't the case anymore. 

 

We were then told the general quality of the EPL outwith the top 4 made it the best league in the world. However, the respective Europa performances from the big leagues in recent years suggests this isn't the case either. 

 

Below Arsenal, there's a lot of dross in that league. Burnley, Everton, Leicester and Newcastle all finished in the top half. These are not good football teams. 

 

P.S. as for your point about teams competing at the top, Man City won by 19 points. 

I know the EPL and from living in Spain, I know La Liga very well.

 

The football is better in Spain and the two top teams are (over a period of time now) the two best in Europe. Even Atletico Madrid could probably play in the EPL and come close to or win it.

 

However, IMO the EPL top six does have something a little bit special that in a normal year is much more competitive between the teams. 'Best league in the world' is really employed as a marketing phrase that stuck,...for accuracy, I'd drop that and call it something else but it does have a compelling mix of quality and competivity (unless Man City continue in same vien).

 

 

ps. factoid that should help those who wager

Between them Real Madrid (7) and Barcelona (4) have won the last eleven CL finals they have played in.

 

factoid 2...that may have had a handful of Madrid fans a little nervous going into the last quarter

The last three times English clubs have won the CL against teams other than English (2008 ManUtd bt Chelsea), unlikely comebacks have been the order of the day.

After 90mins: ...Man Utd 0- Bayern Munich 1

HT:...Liverpool 0-3 AC Milan

87mins:...Chelsea 0-1 Bayern Munich 

 

An English club have never dominated a CL Final, even in the Man Utd v Chelsea final.

You have to go back to the European Cup, when footballers had perms to find a Liverpool team who did manage that.

 

.

Edited May 29, 2018 by buster.

[compo 7,046]

The whole champions league set up will be in for an almighty change if Juventus get their way maybe some computer people can post the story that is in today's daily mail .

[lenny3k 661]

21 minutes ago, compo said:

The whole champions league set up will be in for an almighty change if Juventus get their way maybe some computer people can post the story that is in today's daily mail .

Beware: A sly plan by Andrea Agnelli to make the Champions League dull

 

For Andrea Agnelli, Serie A is not working. And if it is not working for the man whose team have won Italy's title for an unprecedented seven seasons straight, imagine what it must be like for the rest of them.

Agnelli is the fourth member of his family to serve as chairman of Juventus. In his first season, 2010-11, the club finished seventh, after which he appointed Antonio Conte and hasn't looked back. Yet it still isn't enough. To dominate domestically doesn't make Juventus — revenues last year £491.5million — enough money.

'The Serie A product has come to one of its lowest moments,' Agnelli complained. Aston Villa have a bigger ground than Juventus these days, while 50 per cent of a new television deal worth £916.7m will be split equally among the Serie A clubs, in the hope of promoting competition. At the moment, only 10 per cent is subject to an equal share. You can imagine what Agnelli thinks of that.

 

For Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli, who has seen his team dominate, Serie A is not working

Actually, you don't have to, because he's done the imagining for all. Last week, Agnelli launched his plan to screw even more money out of football — sorry, reshape the European game for the greater good. He wants to change the Champions League format so the group stage alone will last 14 games. He wants more matches for elite clubs, and less commitment to domestic football — and he wants a closed shop. Except he didn't mention a closed shop. You had to read between the lines on that one.

Agnelli's plan — and, do not forget, this is the chairman of the European Clubs' Association talking — is for eight groups of four to become four groups of eight in the Champions League. 'We want more European games and less domestic,' he said. 'Whoever participates has to play in the national league with six Under 21 or Under 23 players.'

We'll get to the unexamined ramifications of that in a moment. First, let's see how an eight-team league could shape up. It's easy enough. We can take the 2017-18 Champions League groups and amalgamate: A and B, C and D, and so on.

So Group 1: Manchester United, Basle, CSKA Moscow, Benfica, Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern Munich, Celtic, Anderlecht. We can see the beginnings of the flaws already. Two clubs, at least, look certain to qualify and could be playing dead rubbers, or fielding weakened teams, long before the conclusion. Manchester United will be fairly hopeful, too.

Italian giants Juventus have won Serie A for an unprecedented seven seasons straight

So 56 matches to pretty much locate a fourth-placed team. Then there is the travel. Do Manchester United's supporters have the finances for trips to Switzerland, Russia, Portugal, France, Germany, Scotland and Belgium — and this before the business end of the tournament gets under way?

Meanwhile, Group 2: Roma, Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Qarabag, Barcelona, Juventus, Sporting Lisbon, Olympiacos. A strong field but with three clubs from eight having no chance whatsoever. One of the problems of the Champions League first stage is the 2 v 2 split: a group that has two strong clubs and two also-rans. Barcelona and Juventus, against Sporting and Olympiacos, for instance. Quite often, after the fourth game, what remains is meaningless.

Now think of that in a 4 v 4 split. Groups could be as good as over after eight games, leaving dead fixtures for some. Who wants to watch that? Who will tune in for Qarabag v Olympiacos with nothing on it — or even Barcelona versus Sporting, one already through, the other already out. This is a dismal plan.

But the devil, as ever, is in the detail — or in this case, in the lack of it. Wind back to Agnelli's suggestion that elite clubs field age-group teams in domestic league matches to compensate for increased European engagements. He doesn't say it but right there are the seeds of a Champions League closed shop.

There is no way the elite could play their youth teams for a third of the season and be guaranteed top-four finishes. Have a look at what happens in FA Cup ties when the Premier League clubs go weak. Jurgen Klopp played the kids plus Daniel Sturridge at Exeter in 2016 and almost got knocked out. Arsenal dialled down at Nottingham Forest this season and conceded four to a club with no manager.

Agnelli wants to change Champions League format so the group stage alone will last 14 games

If Manchester United played their Under 21 team against mid-ranking Premier League clubs they would lose — and probably lose enough not to finish in the top four. So Agnelli's four-group, 32-team Champions League would have to come with certain guarantees to its members. Devaluing domestic competition would mean league positions could not be used to decide entry.

So what would? The only criteria men like Agnelli understand: wealth. The survival of the richest. He, and like-minded saboteurs of fair sport, would cherry-pick the entrants and there they would remain. Do not imagine a club such as Juventus could get relegated from Agnelli's world. There would be no Leicester-like fairy tales, either, no surprises, no romance, nothing that is new — just a procession of the same old names, playing the same old fixtures, the majority of which will mean even less than they do now.

Agnelli would make the Champions League as dull as Serie A, as dull as the Bundesliga, as dull as the Scottish Premier League, or any of these competitions in which one club are so politically and economically powerful their success is guaranteed.

And when that boredom multiplies, as the world switches off, Agnelli will seek the solution in his next revolution. And he will decide that what the people want, once again, is for Juventus to become even richer than they already are: because his sort always do.

Agnelli's plans would make the Champions League as dull as the Italian top flight

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5780327/Beware-sly-plan-Andrea-Agnelli-make-Champions-League-dull.html

[buster. 5,198]

For that proposeal in the article above, Don Agnelli might aswell be an online messageboard poster making a suggestion for CL reconstruction, he'd have the same chance of success. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by buster.

[the gunslinger 3,366]

The epl has its merits. The better sharing of cash makes it stronger top to bottom.

How many leagues have teams lime villa and fulham playing off just to get in.

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

19 hours ago, the gunslinger said:

The epl has its merits. The better sharing of cash makes it stronger top to bottom.

How many leagues have teams lime villa and fulham playing off just to get in.

Do you think Burnley would finish anywhere near 7th in Spain? No chance.

 

Outwith the top 6 the EPL has a lot of crap in it, and that includes two really poor Chelsea and Arsenal sides.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Ser Barristan Selmy

[JFK-1 1,693]

4 hours ago, Ser Barristan Selmy said:

Do you think Burnley would finish anywhere near 7th in Spain? No chance.

 

Outwith the top 6 the EPL has a lot of crap in it, and that includes two really poor Chelsea and Arsenal sides.

Wish Rangers were as poor as Arsenal. Narrowly beaten in a Europa league semi final would do me nicely right now.