Glasgow Cup Final Rangers 3 Celtic 0

[TheUKCrazyhorse 96]

4 minutes ago, craig said:

Speaking of Billy Gilmour....  The lad must be doing really well down south because, at just 16 yrs old, he has been selected for the Scotland U21's for the Toulon tournament this summer.

 

Rangers players selected are : Robby McCrorie, Ross McCrorie, Liam Burt and Glenn Middleton.  We have the highest number of representatives

Which must be further evidence that, despite all the other issues that might be plaguing the club just now, the youth setup isn't part of the problem.

[craig 5,199]

2 minutes ago, TheUKCrazyhorse said:

Which must be further evidence that, despite all the other issues that might be plaguing the club just now, the youth setup isn't part of the problem.

Completely agree.  There are some other very, very good youths at the club and, IMHO, the youth set up at Rangers is in very good hands.  The philosophy has changed from a physical style (under Sinclair) to a technical style under Mulholland. 

 

Not every age group has it their own way, as you would expect, but they play the game in the right manner - hopefully we will see some of them being blended into the first team picture - but in order to really do that we need to be putting teams to the sword early in games, allowing us the opportunity to give the younger guys minutes.  At this point, we couldn't put ANY team to the sword though...

[DMAA 3,658]

26 minutes ago, craig said:

The philosophy has changed from a physical style (under Sinclair) to a technical style under Mulholland. 

This was very clear to see in the final. I was amazed at the boys’ technical capabilities. Moved the ball around on the deck really well and great dribbling ability. I was surprised how physical rather than technical Celtic looked. 

[craig 5,199]

2 hours ago, DMAA said:

This was very clear to see in the final. I was amazed at the boys’ technical capabilities. Moved the ball around on the deck really well and great dribbling ability. I was surprised how physical rather than technical Celtic looked. 

I was told from someone within the Academy that a few years ago (probably 3 or 4 years ago - certainly during the admin period) we played Celtic at all age groups and soundly pumped them (ok, journalistic license... we beat them at all age groups) and on the Monday morning there was a significant post-mortem at Parkhead.  The result of which, I am led to believe, was a change in their philosophy to ensure that they were beating us in the age groups, which resulted in them going the more physical route.

 

Personally I much prefer the technical rather then physical route.  It has been fairly easy for Celtic to bring youth into their first team in the last half dozen years because they know that they have literally no domestic competition, and because they have been routinely pumping teams, allowing their youngsters to get minutes when the games are dead - lets see if they continue to do that when we become more of a competitor again.  For us, we have been fairly poor in the first team and with little depth to be able to bring through the youth unless absolutely necessary - eg, would McCrorie and Bates really have been given their chance if not out of necessity ?  Once we have a stronger playing pool we can bring the youth through to get minutes the same way they have.

 

I think our youth are doing pretty well considering.  And as I said, there is one in particular in the youth ranks who really does have the potential to "go all the way" much in the same way as Billy Gilmour - different player, but really is that good, IMHO of course.

[DMAA 3,658]

11 minutes ago, craig said:

was told from someone within the Academy that a few years ago (probably 3 or 4 years ago - certainly during the admin period) we played Celtic at all age groups and soundly pumped them

Have to say I'm quite surprised by this. They had won that U17 Glasgow Cup 4 times in a row. And to be honest my impression was that Celtic have been better than us at picking up the best players at youth level (Dembele for example).

 

11 minutes ago, craig said:

nd as I said, there is one in particular in the youth ranks who really does have the potential to "go all the way" much in the same way as Billy Gilmour

Which one? I was impressed with a few of them. I particularly enjoyed watching McPake. It's very pleasing that he was signed from Hibs. That to me suggests the club are doing a better job than I thought at signing some of the best youth players from other teams. We need to be trying to hoover them up at those lower levels.

[craig 5,199]

6 minutes ago, DMAA said:

Have to say I'm quite surprised by this. They had won that U17 Glasgow Cup 4 times in a row. And to be honest my impression was that Celtic have been better than us at picking up the best players at youth level (Dembele for example).

 

Which one? I was impressed with a few of them. I particularly enjoyed watching McPake. It's very pleasing that he was signed from Hibs. That to me suggests the club are doing a better job than I thought at signing some of the best youth players from other teams. We need to be trying to hoover them up at those lower levels.

Regards to both quotes you are focusing on just the one team.  The instance I mentioned was across all age groups, not just the headline "Development" or "U17" group.

 

I have no doubt that they would have picked up Dembele anyway as, I believe, he is a Celtic fan.... however, there were other factors at play in his signing.... It wasn't for lack of trying on Rangers part - because I remember being at a Rangers tournament with someone from the Academy and he said that he would love to have Dembele at Rangers but that he was headed to Celtic and Rangers couldn't do anything about it - his brother was there too at the time.

 

The one I am talking about is a U14 but is already getting minutes at U17 - not playing full games but he has, in almost all of his time at Rangers, played "up" because his own age group hasn't been enough of a challenge for him.  My son played against him when they were 8 and even then the kid was a stand out.  I watched him that same year at Auchenhowie after he had signed and also the following year and he was the best player on the pitch by a mile IMO.  I have spoken to elfideldo privately about him and, without giving too much away, elfideldo is of the belief that this lad is one of, if not the, best he has seen at the Academy.

 

So we do a good job at getting kids - unfortunately we couldn't keep Billy Gilmour, but his move to Chelsea was a sign that the Academy are doing their job very well.  Dembele, as far as aI am aware, is being lined up to move to Man City - no doubt Celtic will spin it in the press as being massive for Scottish football, far bigger than Gilmour.  Both have a long way to go to make it, but Gilmour at 16 is already training with the Chelsea 1st team squad.

[DMAA 3,658]

14 minutes ago, craig said:

Regards to both quotes you are focusing on just the one team.  The instance I mentioned was across all age groups, not just the headline "Development" or "U17" group.

 

I have no doubt that they would have picked up Dembele anyway as, I believe, he is a Celtic fan.... however, there were other factors at play in his signing.... It wasn't for lack of trying on Rangers part - because I remember being at a Rangers tournament with someone from the Academy and he said that he would love to have Dembele at Rangers but that he was headed to Celtic and Rangers couldn't do anything about it - his brother was there too at the time.

 

The one I am talking about is a U14 but is already getting minutes at U17 - not playing full games but he has, in almost all of his time at Rangers, played "up" because his own age group hasn't been enough of a challenge for him.  My son played against him when they were 8 and even then the kid was a stand out.  I watched him that same year at Auchenhowie after he had signed and also the following year and he was the best player on the pitch by a mile IMO.  I have spoken to elfideldo privately about him and, without giving too much away, elfideldo is of the belief that this lad is one of, if not the, best he has seen at the Academy.

 

So we do a good job at getting kids - unfortunately we couldn't keep Billy Gilmour, but his move to Chelsea was a sign that the Academy are doing their job very well.  Dembele, as far as aI am aware, is being lined up to move to Man City - no doubt Celtic will spin it in the press as being massive for Scottish football, far bigger than Gilmour.  Both have a long way to go to make it, but Gilmour at 16 is already training with the Chelsea 1st team squad.

Sounds all positive to me. Things can only get better with you pal Kevin Thompson helping them out too. I think Partick Thistle are good at picking up kids at a young age too. I was involved in coaching a very young age group and one kid (foreign origin) was lightyears ahead of the rest and before long Partick turned up.

 

I'm surprised nobody has signed Dembele already. I'm sure they'll get decent money for him. Have to say I resent the way the big clubs nick the best players away for next to nothing. Having said that I've just advocated Rangers doing the same thing in Scotland so I'm a bit of a hypocrite.

 

 

[craig 5,199]

13 minutes ago, DMAA said:

Sounds all positive to me. Things can only get better with you pal Kevin Thompson helping them out too. I think Partick Thistle are good at picking up kids at a young age too. I was involved in coaching a very young age group and one kid (foreign origin) was lightyears ahead of the rest and before long Partick turned up.

 

I'm surprised nobody has signed Dembele already. I'm sure they'll get decent money for him. Have to say I resent the way the big clubs nick the best players away for next to nothing. Having said that I've just advocated Rangers doing the same thing in Scotland so I'm a bit of a hypocrite.

 

 

I think the Academy have come on light years in recent years to be honest.  They now do video analysis of all the games, each player then gets his own video to self-analyse his own game (after it has been edited for him), they use the activity trackers that the senior team use and there is a ton of analysis done.  They have managed to do this without increasing the cost of the youth department too, so the Board do need credit in becoming much more efficient in that regard - one of the legacies of Warburton too, I believe.

 

They have definitely ramped up scouting too, but these things all take time to come to fruition - and, like it or not, we have been such a basket case for so long, that the attraction for younger kids, unless Rangers fans, would be to go to Celtic instead of us - much as though it pains to say it.  We have to sell ourselves in a different way right now, such as a clear path to the first team - McCrorie helps in that regard.

 

KT loves working with the kids - and I can only speak from personal experience - my son is a far better player having trained with KT for 9 months.  Far better in every aspect.  But I am sure that KT wouldn't mind me saying that he has eyes on a bigger goal.... yes, he is desperate to become manager of Rangers, despite being a Hibbee - he loves the club and cares passionately about it.  But, and he knows this, he just has to keep working hard where he is and get himself recognized and offer himself - which he does anyway - his Hibs development team, when he coached them, were pretty successful I believe.  No reason he can't one day manage us - he would take it right now, but I am not sure it would be the right time for him OR us.

 

Nobody can sign Dembele yet.  They can't officially sign someone until they are 16 and he isn't 16 yet.  From what I am led to believe, Billy Gilmour genuinely was unsure whether to stay or go - but he couldn't sign that Chelsea contract until he turned 16 anyway.  I suspect they will get decent money for him - but remember... they have to be wary because City could just sign him and let it go to tribunal, and then they could get a pittance.  Given Gilmour was only 15 at the time, we did reasonably well I think, given circumstances.

 

Completely agree - one of the best talents we have seen in a generation was taken from us for what amounts to pocket change for the purchasing club.  2-3 years ago, Chelsea had 53 youths out on loan..... so long as one or two of them make the first team they are set.  And even those who don't.... they have been at Chelsea so they can still command a tidy fee for them.  Reuben Loftus-Cheek for example.  It is killing the game for the poorer nations.  A couple of years ago, Chelsea (reportedly) offered Barcelona 3 million for one of their kids, a kid by the name of Xavi Simons (and, yes, he IS the real deal)... he was 13 at the time

[compo 7,043]

I wouldn't hesitate to put a few of the youngsters on the bench on Saturday and give some of them a wee run out they cant be any worse than the others  

[pete 2,499]

43 minutes ago, craig said:

I think the Academy have come on light years in recent years to be honest.  They now do video analysis of all the games, each player then gets his own video to self-analyse his own game (after it has been edited for him), they use the activity trackers that the senior team use and there is a ton of analysis done.  They have managed to do this without increasing the cost of the youth department too, so the Board do need credit in becoming much more efficient in that regard - one of the legacies of Warburton too, I believe.

 

They have definitely ramped up scouting too, but these things all take time to come to fruition - and, like it or not, we have been such a basket case for so long, that the attraction for younger kids, unless Rangers fans, would be to go to Celtic instead of us - much as though it pains to say it.  We have to sell ourselves in a different way right now, such as a clear path to the first team - McCrorie helps in that regard.

 

KT loves working with the kids - and I can only speak from personal experience - my son is a far better player having trained with KT for 9 months.  Far better in every aspect.  But I am sure that KT wouldn't mind me saying that he has eyes on a bigger goal.... yes, he is desperate to become manager of Rangers, despite being a Hibbee - he loves the club and cares passionately about it.  But, and he knows this, he just has to keep working hard where he is and get himself recognized and offer himself - which he does anyway - his Hibs development team, when he coached them, were pretty successful I believe.  No reason he can't one day manage us - he would take it right now, but I am not sure it would be the right time for him OR us.

 

Nobody can sign Dembele yet.  They can't officially sign someone until they are 16 and he isn't 16 yet.  From what I am led to believe, Billy Gilmour genuinely was unsure whether to stay or go - but he couldn't sign that Chelsea contract until he turned 16 anyway.  I suspect they will get decent money for him - but remember... they have to be wary because City could just sign him and let it go to tribunal, and then they could get a pittance.  Given Gilmour was only 15 at the time, we did reasonably well I think, given circumstances.

 

Completely agree - one of the best talents we have seen in a generation was taken from us for what amounts to pocket change for the purchasing club.  2-3 years ago, Chelsea had 53 youths out on loan..... so long as one or two of them make the first team they are set.  And even those who don't.... they have been at Chelsea so they can still command a tidy fee for them.  Reuben Loftus-Cheek for example.  It is killing the game for the poorer nations.  A couple of years ago, Chelsea (reportedly) offered Barcelona 3 million for one of their kids, a kid by the name of Xavi Simons (and, yes, he IS the real deal)... he was 13 at the time

That is not strange Craig Real Madrid took a young Dutch boy who was under 10 I believe  and gave his father a job and house to move to Spain. The son of Patrick Kluivert, brother of justin, Shane Kluivert who is also only 10 plays for Barcelona although he moved from PSG to Barca because his father got a job with the Spanish TV . Shane Kluivert also does cooking and has already a cook book in the shops.