Dryhorse 2 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Clarke has not been there all season Lee MCCulloch was boss he got the boot to let Clarke in 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Darthter said: And you're taking into account the games that Murty wasn't in charge....We have to base things on FACT, and the fact is that Kilmarnock are nothing more than a mid-table side. Yes, Clarke is doing a good job for them just now but everyone went on about how great a job McInnes was doing at Aberdeen, until we pumped them twice (under Murty's guidance). Clarke has zero experience of managing at a high level. I would argue that Murty has more experience now than Clarke has. If we were to swap Murty for Clarke, what advantage would we really see??? Ultimately, time will tell how good a manager Clarke really is - that maybe sooner rather than later, we don't know. So Steve Clarke..... Assistant Manager to Ruud Gullit at Newcastle Assistant Manager to Jose Mourinho and Avram Grant at Chelsea Assistant Manager to Gianfranco Zola at West Ham Head Coach to Kenny Dalglish at Liverpool Manager at West Brom in the Premier League Manager at Reading in the Championship Assistant Manager to Roberto Di Matteo at Aston Villa Manager at Kilmarnock ....is less experienced than Graeme Murty Assistant Youth Development Coach U12's - U16's at Southampton Youth Development Phase Lead Coach U16's then U18's Norwich Head Coach Rangers U20's Caretaker Manager Rangers 1 month Caretaker Manager Rangers 6 months + Edited March 20, 2018 by forlanssister Shit spelling 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) Steve Clarke's managerial record ain't all that great. Serving as an assistant under some top managers, doesn't mean he will make a great manager himself - Exhibit No. 1....Mr A McCoist. G Murty Managerial record: S Clarke Managerial record: Edited March 20, 2018 by Darthter 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dryhorse 2 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Aye cos EPL and English championship is on a par to Scottish fitbaw 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Darthter said: Steve Clarke's managerial record ain't all that great. Serving as an assistant under some top managers, doesn't mean he will make a great manager himself - Exhibit No. 1....Mr A McCoist. Quote I would argue that Murty has more experience now than Clarke has. Cheers you just torpedoed your own nonsense from earlier in the thread. Thing is as has been demonstrated over and over again you don't need to be a great manager to succeed in Scottish football competence is usually sufficient and Clarke is certainly competent. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Darthter said: Steve Clarke's managerial record ain't all that great. Serving as an assistant under some top managers, doesn't mean he will make a great manager himself - Exhibit No. 1....Mr A McCoist. G Murty Managerial record: S Clarke Managerial record: But he has at least served his apprenticeship as an assistant under some top managers. Murty's apprenticeship has been to coach youngsters and with very little assistance from ANY 1st team managers, let alone top managers. You simply can't compare their two managerial records. Look at the losses of both managers. Murty's loss ratio is 30% exactly. Clarke's is 36%. There can surely be no doubt that given the team's and leagues Clarke was managing in that you would expect his loss ratio to be significantly higher than Murty's - yet it actually isn't. I guess it just goes to show you can make statistics prove whatever you want them to prove. Murty may have a 63% win rate (which is admirable) but Clarke was managing West Brom and Reading for most of those games, playing against teams he wouldn't be expected to beat. Murty is expected to beat most of the teams he faces. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, forlanssister said: Cheers you just torpedoed your own nonsense from earlier in the thread. Thing is as has been demonstrated over and over again you don't need to be a great manager to succeed in Scottish football competence is usually sufficient and Clarke is certainly competent. I would imagine the pressure levels @ West Brom & Reading are considerably less than at Rangers.... Maybe, my original comment should have been " I would argue that Murty has better suited experience now than Clarke has." in that he is currently in the Gers hotseat. For someone that hasn't been an assistant else where, or managed "lower grade" english sides, Murty's stats are still impressive compared to Clarkes - 66% to 52% win ratio. If Clarke was to replace Murty at the end of the season....How long would fans give him, before getting on his back??? I would estimate not very long at all - a couple of poor performances, maybe a couple of defeats before pointing towards the exit... The problem is that fans are judging him solely on what he's done at Killie over the past 6 months. If Murty is to be replaced, we don't need a manager with a good 6-8 month track record.....we need someone who has a notable record for a number of years - that's the only way of reducing risk. What we don't want is another Pedro episode, whereby the new manager brings in (predominantly) a load of middle to below par players, with whom we're stuck with for 3 yrs. I still believe that if getting a good candidate in, means less player budget, then it must be done. While our current squad is not perfect or where we would like it to be, it has proven that it is certainly better than the rest, and is a match for Ceptic. We have the component parts to perform well next season, we just need someone that can bind them together & produce a level of consistency that we haven't had. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Darthter said: I would imagine the pressure levels @ West Brom & Reading are considerably less than at Rangers.... Maybe, my original comment should have been " I would argue that Murty has better suited experience now than Clarke has." in that he is currently in the Gers hotseat. For someone that hasn't been an assistant else where, or managed "lower grade" english sides, Murty's stats are still impressive compared to Clarkes - 66% to 52% win ratio. If Clarke was to replace Murty at the end of the season....How long would fans give him, before getting on his back??? I would estimate not very long at all - a couple of poor performances, maybe a couple of defeats before pointing towards the exit... The problem is that fans are judging him solely on what he's done at Killie over the past 6 months. If Murty is to be replaced, we don't need a manager with a good 6-8 month track record.....we need someone who has a notable record for a number of years - that's the only way of reducing risk. What we don't want is another Pedro episode, whereby the new manager brings in (predominantly) a load of middle to below par players, with whom we're stuck with for 3 yrs. I still believe that if getting a good candidate in, means less player budget, then it must be done. While our current squad is not perfect or where we would like it to be, it has proven that it is certainly better than the rest, and is a match for Ceptic. We have the component parts to perform well next season, we just need someone that can bind them together & produce a level of consistency that we haven't had. There is no if in regards to Murty being replaced it's a case of when. I'm not for one second advocating Clarke for Rangers manager but if it were a choice between Clarke and Murty I'd take Clarke any day that ended in a y. It's churlish to belittle Clarke's achievements with a side that were a stick on for the play offs if not straight relegation before his arrival. Saturday alone showed the difference between the two, Clarke knew we would attack down the right and ensured they doubled up on Candeias and Tavernier every time, he also knew Tavernier would be caught forward and the only cover would be the paceless Alves hence Jordan Jones having a virtual free reign on their left. He saw Morelos warm up and made a double substitution which completely negated the change before it took effect. That's the difference between an experienced manager and an U20's caretaker. I agree our current squad is almost certainly is better than the rest but that only makes the fact that Clarke has bettered Murty home and away with an inferior squad all the more impressive. I have no problem with going the extra mile for a decent manager even if it is at the expense of the player budget. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffer 1,665 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 2 hours ago, craig said: Sorry but that part I have highlighted in bold is quite simply "if my Aunty had baws" stuff. How about if Celtic had performed even close to their level ? You are trying to look at our performance in a vacuum and extrapolating that Celtic played as well as they can. The team may have been CAPABLE of beating Celtic, but they didn't. And that was a loss....given we were drawing whilst Celtic had a player fewer and under Murty's direction suggests Murty was out-thought. Could it have happened to Clarke too ? I guess so, we will never know. Knowing the players and knowing the club doesn't lower the risk by any noticeable amount IMO. Given we are clearly mentally fragile it could be argued the other way. I was someone more than prepared to give Murty a chance - the team had been performing better. But he was clearly out-thought by Rodgers at Ibrox and then Clarke's team also outclassed him tactically. They don't instill a great confidence that Murty is the right guy to take us forward. There is a risk in ANY appointment. But I am just opining that, on balance, Clarke would be a better option than Murty, and has a better pedigree too - which is not to say that Murty wont go on to be a very good manager. My point is that Murty put out a team that was performing until they had man sent off. Then they stopped playing. Yes, he shoulders a little bit of the blame, but the team was capable and didn't deliver. Let's no talk always blame the manager. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Gaffer said: My point is that Murty put out a team that was performing until they had man sent off. Then they stopped playing. Yes, he shoulders a little bit of the blame, but the team was capable and didn't deliver. Let's no talk always blame the manager. I'm not someone who always blames the manager - trust me, I spent plenty of time defending McCoist, even when he became indefensible. However, Murty was quite clearly out-thought by Rodgers - Rodgers made a smart substitution whilst Murty sat on his hands. The team Murty put out was competing, yes. But how did they compete on Saturday past against an inferior team ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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