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[boabie 230]

Normally I wouldn't get involved in this type of debate as I'm probably what would be regarded as some sort of caveman these days. I'm a product of different times.

If someone is LGBT then fine. It's their life to do with as they wish. I wouldn't dream of saying they are wrong or subject them to any kind of verbal abuse.

But I most certainly object to folk saying I have to agree with them or that I'm wrong for not "liking" their preferences.

Get on with your own lives. I won't interfere. In return don't interfere with mine.

 

As an aside, I watched quite an amusing movie last night on that subject. It was called "Pride", about LGBT supporting the miners during their strike. Worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

Edited August 8, 2017 by boabie

[MacK1950 2,376]

Thanks River bear I take your point and if your work covers that area I also accept what you say,but I still think we should be looking after our own and then if things are working then help immigrants,refugees etc.

I know that many are fleeing countries because of oppression and do feel sorry for them,but they come here because Britain is a soft touch.

We are but a small island nation and the gold paved streets don't exist as can be seen by the savage cuts in services we take for granted.

Personally I am not a rich person but my wife and I own our own flat,but due to the local housing association having bought over four flats in the tenement find ourselves living next door to what I would call undesirables.

Having worked since 1968 with less than 6 months unemployed in that time and still working part-time to keep me in a routine so the changes I have seen in Britain over the years don't always bode well for me.

Anyway this thread has a long way to run and this will probably be my last post on the matter.

[RiverBear7 0]

The "native British people" as you describe them have paid into the collective pot via their NIC's. I have former tenants who haven't set foot in the UK in over 9 years still receiving Child Benefit.

 

 

 

If things were distributed less freely they wouldn't be making a beeline for the UK in the first place. Refugees and Asylum Seekers are supposed to register and apply as soon as they enter the EU, those in the camps in Calais are not fleeing persecution they're attempting to flee France. Brexit will not make a blind bit of difference to that either.

 

I don't want to get too in to this because it's off topic for the thread, but it is another truth that immigrants of all types overall contribute more than they take. The NHS is a great example of what they contribute. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but overall, I think it's a positive.

 

As for the UK being a destination, it is for some I suppose, but it's not because of the welfare state - people from so far away generally aren't aware of it, at least in any detail. When you're being bombed or persecuted, the last thing you're worrying about is how much you can get from the Home Office/DWP. Europe treats people fleeing like problems, and it isn't uncommon for people to be moved around from country to country without much say in it. Yes, you are supposed to register as soon as you arrive, but this isn't always easy to do, and govts will find any excuse to pass you on to another country or back to your own. There are lots of factors that push people around Europe, and it's important to remember that. Countries like France will find any excuse not to take people, and there are very complex rules which make it easy for them to justify refusing people. The UK is much the same (I could go in to more detail about the Home Office makes the UK a literally hostile place to asylum seekers), so people find themselves in makeshift camps, between countries, and looking for anywhere to go that's safe and secure.

 

It's not a case of fleeing France, or any other European country, it's just finding somewhere safe. I absolutely won't entertain the idea that these people aren't genuinely fleeing seriously dangerous situations. I've spoken to too many people through my work have lost everything and have the scars to prove it to know the reality.

 

You're right about Brexit though and it not helping the refugee issue as it is a totally separate issue.

[RiverBear7 0]

Thanks River bear I take your point and if your work covers that area I also accept what you say,but I still think we should be looking after our own and then if things are working then help immigrants,refugees etc.

I know that many are fleeing countries because of oppression and do feel sorry for them,but they come here because Britain is a soft touch.

We are but a small island nation and the gold paved streets don't exist as can be seen by the savage cuts in services we take for granted.

Personally I am not a rich person but my wife and I own our own flat,but due to the local housing association having bought over four flats in the tenement find ourselves living next door to what I would call undesirables.

Having worked since 1968 with less than 6 months unemployed in that time and still working part-time to keep me in a routine so the changes I have seen in Britain over the years don't always bode well for me.

Anyway this thread has a long way to run and this will probably be my last post on the matter.

 

Regarding your first point, fair enough. I disagree in the sense that I think if we had a fairer society, we could help everyone who needs it more, but that's a political opinion.

 

As to your second point, I wrote about it elsewhere, but I think it's important to show the reality. 1) People very rarely 'choose' Britain. In some cases, such as 'family reunion' cases, I suppose they do, but mostly, it's where they end up - maybe their smuggler has arranged it that way, or they have been moved from govt to govt in Europe and eventually ended up here, and so on and so on. European govts have an agreement to take certain numbers of asylum seekers/refugees, but they will do whatever they can to refuse them so they don't take many more than promised. Essentially bureaucratic reasons like incorrect paperwork, that sort of thing. There are infinite different routes to safety, they are all hard, and some of them end in Britain.

 

As for Britain being a soft touch - I can tell you with confidence that intimidation is practically UK policy when it comes to asylum seekers. The Home Office try to confuse and trick claimants so they can refuse their claim, and somewhere between 30-40% of denials are found to be wrong decisions. Asylum seekers get a pittance and live under very strict rules, and when they become a refugee, the system dictates that most automatically become homeless for a time because they are kicked off home office support and have to apply for everything again. For both asylum seekers and refugees, there is very little support to integrate and succeed here, and the bulk of support comes from charities.

 

I won't go on about this anymore because I know I might sound a bit preachy, and also it's off topic, but I just think the facts of the matter are so much worse than what you'll read in a paper or hear your mate say etc etc.

[forlanssister 3,114]

** Can a mod extricate the immigration related posts and give them their own thread in the Lounge?**

[JohnMc 2,750]

 

I just wonder what the feelings are about this film that has gone viral.

I personally have mixed feelings on it. While I understand the message is that it tells kids it is okay to have these feelings it may also cause some to chase people who do not have these feelings and cause problems. It may also be promoting kids to have these feelings. As I say I get the main message I am just not sure everything will work out as in the film.

 

Eh, I'm not sure what that film is trying to say, it's way too intellectual for me. But the next time an attractive blue alien gives me a glowing ball I'll relax knowing it simply contains a Lynx. Or something. Did I watch the same film you did?

[JohnMc 2,750]

What's a working class man?

 

Who paid for the biscuits?

 

C'mon BD, nobody 'paid' for the biscuits, they were looted from a country on the other side of the world 100 years ago, as you know fine well...

[pete 2,499]

Eh, I'm not sure what that film is trying to say, it's way too intellectual for me. But the next time an attractive blue alien gives me a glowing ball I'll relax knowing it simply contains a Lynx. Or something. Did I watch the same film you did?

 

Sorry no that is not the right filmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REkk9SCRn0

 

Sorry the film must just have moved on before I copied. This is the right one I checked this time.

[SteveC 150]

The "native British people" as you describe them have paid into the collective pot via their NIC's. I have former tenants who haven't set foot in the UK in over 9 years still receiving Child Benefit.

 

 

 

If things were distributed less freely they wouldn't be making a beeline for the UK in the first place. Refugees and Asylum Seekers are supposed to register and apply as soon as they enter the EU, those in the camps in Calais are not fleeing persecution they're attempting to flee France. Brexit will not make a blind bit of difference to that either.

 

No they are attempting to flee a horrible camp where they are constant targets of violence and harrassment. My niece went over with some friends and helped them build more sanitary toileting facilities. Needless to say they were soon bulldozed down and the jungle cleared, again. Most if not all of those in the camps are not being allowed to settle in France. Much of the UK press reporting on that camp makes the BBC look positively pro-Rangers in comparison.

Edited August 9, 2017 by SteveC

[JohnMc 2,750]

Sorry no that is not the right filmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REkk9SCRn0

 

Sorry the film must just have moved on before I copied. This is the right one I checked this time.

 

Yeah, I think I preferred the one with the aliens.

 

Life ain't like the movies in my experience. You'd have been kicked to death at my secondary school if you'd come out as gay, so if it helps move kids on from that very low base I guess it can't hurt.