917 191 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I'm not sure this discussion is representative of most Rangers fans to be honest. Homosexuality was actually illegal as recently as 1980. It has since become socially acceptable and it's now actually illegal to openly express any kind of moral opposition to it, but a lot of us were born before 1980 and still have the values which were ingrained in us as children. I do know a few gay men through work though and none of them are remotely interested in football, or competitive sports in general. They have more varied interests. Why is this a problem? I suspect it's more to do with Corporate Football trying to attract a section of the community who have a higher disposable income than the rest of us, than it has any true relevance to 'equality.' Like everything else these days.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverBear7 0 Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 I just wonder what the feelings are about this film that has gone viral. I personally have mixed feelings on it. While I understand the message is that it tells kids it is okay to have these feelings it may also cause some to chase people who do not have these feelings and cause problems. It may also be promoting kids to have these feelings. As I say I get the main message I am just not sure everything will work out as in the film. Ach Pete, now I've seen the film you meant to post i'm afraid I have to disagree quite strongly with you again, though I know your concerns are sincere. When you say "it may also cause some to chase people who do not have these feelings and cause problems" isn't that just as likely between a boy and a girl? The kids in this film are obviously crushed by not being able to share their feelings/facing the reaction from their school-mates, and this seems a fair reflection of being 'closeted'. The part about 'promoting' kids to have these feelings? I'm afraid that's a really strange concern for a few reasons. One, why would they do that? But most importantly, you can't 'promote' sexuality intentionally or not - I know some people disagree with this, but you don't 'choose' your sexuality and you can't help who you fancy or like. The film is pretty chintzy, but I thought it was beautifully done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverBear7 0 Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 I'm not sure this discussion is representative of most Rangers fans to be honest. Homosexuality was actually illegal as recently as 1980. It has since become socially acceptable and it's now actually illegal to openly express any kind of moral opposition to it, but a lot of us were born before 1980 and still have the values which were ingrained in us as children. I do know a few gay men through work though and none of them are remotely interested in football, or competitive sports in general. They have more varied interests. Why is this a problem? I suspect it's more to do with Corporate Football trying to attract a section of the community who have a higher disposable income than the rest of us, than it has any true relevance to 'equality.' Like everything else these days.. I can agree that there may be a money aspect here - i.e. more people buying shirts/tickets etc, but it's just the decent thing to do in my opinion. We've already discussed here how it is near certain that their are professional players in Scotland who haven't been able to come out, and how similarly, football grounds may not seem that welcoming to LGBT fans without us reaching out to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Ach Pete, now I've seen the film you meant to post i'm afraid I have to disagree quite strongly with you again, though I know your concerns are sincere. When you say "it may also cause some to chase people who do not have these feelings and cause problems" isn't that just as likely between a boy and a girl? The kids in this film are obviously crushed by not being able to share their feelings/facing the reaction from their school-mates, and this seems a fair reflection of being 'closeted'. The part about 'promoting' kids to have these feelings? I'm afraid that's a really strange concern for a few reasons. One, why would they do that? But most importantly, you can't 'promote' sexuality intentionally or not - I know some people disagree with this, but you don't 'choose' your sexuality and you can't help who you fancy or like. The film is pretty chintzy, but I thought it was beautifully done. Personally I doubt it. Maybe in a perfect world but I think in the world of a secondary school, a boy or girl hitting on a heterosexual would be opening themselves up to ridicule and bullying. I am not saying that I find that good but just the way it is in this age. Maybe in the future that will change but I doubt if we are at that stage just yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffer 1,665 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 We've had a decent debate about this, but I think the only way the culture will really change is if a top player (or a few of them) 'come out' as being gay. I just wonder if that's likely any time soon. If players felt comfortable with it, you'd then like to think that many more supporters would change their attitudes. I'm pleased the club is doing it's part, but there's obviously a strong culture in football which prevents these young men from feeling comfortable enough to say they are gay. I wonder if this is through fear of the reaction from their teammates or from the supporters. It may well be that their teammates do know, but they are concerned about the reaction of the fans and therefore don't speak about it outside the dressing room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 We've had a decent debate about this, but I think the only way the culture will really change is if a top player (or a few of them) 'come out' as being gay. I just wonder if that's likely any time soon. If players felt comfortable with it, you'd then like to think that many more supporters would change their attitudes. I'm pleased the club is doing it's part, but there's obviously a strong culture in football which prevents these young men from feeling comfortable enough to say they are gay. I wonder if this is through fear of the reaction from their teammates or from the supporters. It may well be that their teammates do know, but they are concerned about the reaction of the fans and therefore don't speak about it outside the dressing room. Personally I have no need to know the sexuality of a player it is what he is doing on the field that interests me. whether he was gay or heterosexual has no bearing if he is doing his job on the park. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueflag 386 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 ** Can a mod extricate the immigration related posts and give them their own thread in the Lounge?**I'll try sort it in the morning fs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverBear7 0 Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Personally I have no need to know the sexuality of a player it is what he is doing on the field that interests me. whether he was gay or heterosexual has no bearing if he is doing his job on the park. I agree almost totally with that. A player's sexuality doesn't matter, and I do only care about their performance. Saying that, there is clearly an issue with people feeling comfortable being themselves within football, and so any efforts to reduce that are very welcome. If a player decides to make the brave decision to come out, and empower others, it could really help people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I agree almost totally with that. A player's sexuality doesn't matter, and I do only care about their performance. Saying that, there is clearly an issue with people feeling comfortable being themselves within football, and so any efforts to reduce that are very welcome. If a player decides to make the brave decision to come out, and empower others, it could really help people. It is not just a problem for the Homosexuals but also for the Heterosexuals. Would they feel comfortable sharing showers and being naked in front of them. It is easy to say we have to accept Homosexuality but it does bring a new way of thinking in the dressing room. Would a female feel comfortable in a shower where males could be looking at her body in a sexual way. That would be the same for Heterosexuals when in the shower with a homosexual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo79 15,293 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Can we not just go to the football and support Rangers? RiverBear7 seems very intent on promoting diversity but is invisible on the Peter Campbell memorial thread and other threads which don't question anti-Rangers problems...makes me wonder. Sexuality doesn't really come into sports and we're Scottish, so nasty words should deflect off our thick skin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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