SteveC 150 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Who are "we" in this instance? People hold views that I personally deem abhorrent and no doubt some people find some of my views to be abhorrent too, I don't have a problem with that and in no way think that I am superior because of that. Views I find abhorrent today I may find acceptable tomorrow and views I find acceptable today I may find abhorrent tomorrow. Peoples views can and do change. It does not follow that because I hold my view on a particular point someone who disagree's with me is wrong, in the main I'm agnostic but that doesn't mean atheists, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs etc...etc.. are wrong and that I am superior to them. We = Gersnet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,751 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Who are "we" in this instance? People hold views that I personally deem abhorrent and no doubt some people find some of my views to be abhorrent too, I don't have a problem with that and in no way think that I am superior because of that. Views I find abhorrent today I may find acceptable tomorrow and views I find acceptable today I may find abhorrent tomorrow. Peoples views can and do change. It does not follow that because I hold my view on a particular point someone who disagree's with me is wrong, in the main I'm agnostic but that doesn't mean atheists, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs etc...etc.. are wrong and that I am superior to them. That's two posts in a row you've introduced the word 'superior' FS, no one I've read has even hinted they feel superior to anyone else. Again with the strawmen. The thread was about a poster applauding the club's signing up to the Equality Charter and Bluedell's equally valid response that he didn't think it was an issue. For me some of the posts on this thread demonstrated it clearly is an issue and, in my opinion, there's a lot of education still required when it comes to LGBT issues. If the club can help with that then great. That's not about feeling in anyway superior to anyone else, that's not about denying someone a view, it's not about 'PC gone mad' or not knowing what the correct term is to call someone from Catalonia or whether the club has done enough to assist fans with disabilities. It's not an either or scenario. The club have done a good thing, in my opinion, you might feel it isn't a good thing, you might feel it is, I can't tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Well I'm struggling to know what you think, other than everyone is free to think what they want, hence my question. I've already said I think the 'age' excuse is a poor one. I don't have any problem with someone holding a contrary view, but they should be able to back it up when challenged on it. I've never said 'age' was an excuse however it is a factor in people holding the views they do, you are of course free to dismiss this notion. See my reply to Pete in post 104. Noted. I was half way through composing my post when my District Nurse or should be Community Care Heath Worker came in, hence when I finally posted it was behind the conversation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jaws 570 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) The language used often seems somewhat of a distraction to the pertinent issues. Which are of course adversity and discrimination! In fact the LGBT community is not some homogeneous or ubiquitous thing as it has various different sub sets within. Some with many subtle differences. Indeed they don't all refer to themselves in the same way which kind of makes a mockery of a set language which is deemed, by polite society, as acceptable to define those sub sets. Nor do they appreciate the virtue signalling of career politicians or anyone else for that matter defining their identities for them. In fact some people I have spoken to will simply not have those very same white knights or politicians redefine the adversity and struggle for them. Why would they? The key is in the word inclusive... which by very definition has a universal quality to it. Edited August 8, 2017 by Big Jaws Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,751 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 What a ridiculous response, in my opinion. You're trying to twist arguments and construct something there, and to make matters worse, you deliberately try to offend me. Why? Was there any need for that? I was asking some questions, and looking for a debate, but you've managed to kill it for me. That's the difference .... others were using terms by accident. You do it deliberately, and yet you're taking the moral high ground?!? What have I twisted? I'm trying to keep the 'debate' on topic, it's not me who introduced the Spanish problem or any of the other tangents. I tried to answer every point you raised. How do you get through 90 minutes at Ibrox with that aversion to swearing you apparently have, how does that work for you? Sometimes swearing is required, it adds emphasis and conveys feeling, in that context I felt it helped convey my feelings towards the opening line of your previous post. I apologised at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinstein 294 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I grew up in an environment where anyone different from a vague norm was the object of a joke. Hence your nickname would be Limpy if you had one leg , one guy who'd had an operation on his skull was "wee hauf heid" , however we all thought those disadvantages were better than being a tim......even being a darkie was better than that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 That's two posts in a row you've introduced the word 'superior' FS, no one I've read has even hinted they feel superior to anyone else. Again with the strawmen. Read the thread SteveC introduced the word superior into the conversation and it's in that context I did used it. The thread was about a poster applauding the club's signing up to the Equality Charter and Bluedell's equally valid response that he didn't think it was an issue. For me some of the posts on this thread demonstrated it clearly is an issue and, in my opinion, there's a lot of education still required when it comes to LGBT issues. If the club can help with that then great. I don't think it's that big an issue but if the Club do and feel it needs addressing then I don't have a problem with them doing so. I do think peoples attitudes to homosexuality (no offence intended to anyone) are shaped by the generation (among other factors) they grew up in, you clearly don't. That's not about feeling in anyway superior to anyone else, that's not about denying someone a view, it's not about 'PC gone mad' or not knowing what the correct term is to call someone from Catalonia or whether the club has done enough to assist fans with disabilities. It's not an either or scenario. The club have done a good thing, in my opinion, you might feel it isn't a good thing, you might feel it is, I can't tell. I'm at a loss as to how you might think I wouldn't think it isn't a positive step, sure I think there are other issues that have a higher priority but then others will have different priorities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 We = Gersnet I was talking about wider society in general not GersNet specifically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC 150 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) I don't think it's that big an issue but if the Club do and feel it needs addressing then I don't have a problem with them doing so. I do think peoples attitudes to homosexuality (no offence intended to anyone) are shaped by the generation (among other factors) they grew up in, you clearly don't. ... Most people/studies seem to indicate that football is an area where there is still a deep rooted problem as evidenced by the paucity of gay players who are open about it (in the male game, at least.) I grew up in the West coast of Scotland in the 60s and 70s. I suspect that you were the same? Or not far away in years and geography. I'm not sure we have the same attitude, however. (Just an observation and, you did add "(among other factors)". We may have, come to that. It's hard to tell. I thought JohnMcs point was that we can outgrow said shaping as society itself progresses away from bigoted attitudes. Apologies if I am misunderstanding or misquoting. i suspect that your attitude is vastly different to what it was when you were in early teens. I cringe to think of how anyone gay in our school would have felt. I left at 16 and went into a more adult world and the shaping began to change very quickly, especially as I knew and had a relationship with a bi-sexual lady in my late teens and I was very heavily into music where barriers had been torn down in the preceding years. Edited August 8, 2017 by SteveC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC 150 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I was talking about wider society in general not GersNet specifically. I feel sure it holds true for both: "We don't allow people to express opinions such as paedophilia, incest, torture, cannibalism, indiscriminate killing and so forth are jolly good things ..." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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