Rangers Sign UpTo the Equality Network

[pete 2,499]

If elderly is not acceptable what other word can you use? Auld yins seems a bit hard for me:)

[SteveC 150]

MacK1950, I need a "thanks for the thanks" button, but I don't have one so please let this note suffice

Edited August 8, 2017 by SteveC

[Germinal 27]

Just as a wee aside and not meant to be directed at anyone, words like elderly or mental aren't just decided upon as being 'offensive' for no reason.

 

The reason certain words become passe is that they fall into common derogatory usage, which in turn can lead to issues in dealing with whatever field is being referred to in the insult. In the example of 'mental' its use as a playground insult is not considered helpful when trying to deal with Scotland's enormous and seriously under funded mental health issues - if people grow up hearing 'mental' used in the context we're all used to here, it makes their likelihood of engaging with mental health services so much less, with worse outcomes for all. No one thinks stigma or insults will suddenly disappear from society at any level but you can't just sit there and do nothing. Well you can, but if the same people who bleat about PC gone mad or the perma-offended are sometimes the same ones who complain they can't get a doctor's appointment or whatever. It's very frustrating.

 

I can't say as I have come across elderly in this context but every day is a school day, I guess.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Germinal

[SteveC 150]

If elderly is not acceptable what other word can you use? Auld yins seems a bit hard for me:)

 

 

I was told at the time and I hated it. Somewhat aptly I am so elderly now that my memory isn't up to remembering it. It was an ugly construction. I remember replying that even "youthfully challenged" would have been better.

 

I should add though - to put it in context - the presentation in question was referring to people in a medical context and the term I disliked (soulless, corporate type speak - clinical) was literally being used clinically, so there was some excuse. It was not being proposed for use in daily conversation.

 

For future reference to any youngsters on here, I know that I am "over the f@@@ing hill" and will take no offence at being so described. "Elderly" would make me suspicious of why you were being so nice!

 

 

I believe "wrinklies" is the term du jour or at least was when my niece and nephew were teenagers - that and "ancients".

Edited August 8, 2017 by SteveC

[JohnMc 2,751]

No I'm not suggesting that at all but I think you know that already.

 

Yeah, I did, fair enough.

 

What I am suggesting is in more general terms that not every societal change is for the better i.e. the current march of positive discrimination which I find as every bit as abhorrent as the discrimination that it allegedly counters. All that should matter is that the person best qualified for a job should get it whatever their gender, whatever their sexual orientation, whatever their colour, whatever their religion etc.

 

But we're agreed that discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation is a bad thing, right? And the use of words and terms that are derogatory and offensive to them should be discouraged too, yeah? The rest is a strawman.

 

That different posters have different views on a subject to those held by either yourself or I isn't in itself a surprise, I think everyone one of us on here will hold views that will shock others but I see that as pretty normal and a reflection of a wide cross section of society who just happen to be brought together by one common love. Be a pretty boring planet if we were all held the same homogeneous views.

 

See I'm cool with people having different views from me, I'm not backwards in expressing my disagreement with some views, as you might have noticed, so I've no problem with other people doing the same. Indeed I quite enjoy it sometimes. It was Anchorman who left the site, not me. I don't think he should have, it was an over-reaction in my opinion, but I can see why Pete's position on here as a 'mod' gave his words more authority and so carried more offence. Pete's explained and apologised, for me that's enough.

[SteveC 150]

Just as a wee aside and not meant to be directed at anyone, words like elderly or mental aren't just decided upon as being 'offensive' for no reason.

 

The reason certain words become passe is that they fall into common derogatory usage, which in turn can lead to issues in dealing with whatever field is being referred to in the insult. In the example of 'mental' its use as a playground insult is not considered helpful when trying to deal with Scotland's enormous and seriously under funded mental health issues - if people grow up hearing 'mental' used in the context we're all used to here, it makes their likelihood of engaging with mental health services so much less, with worse outcomes for all. No one thinks stigma or insults will suddenly disappear from society at any level but you can't just sit there and do nothing. Well you can, but the same people who bleat about PC gone mad or the perma-offended are sometimes the same ones who complain they can't get a doctor's appointment or whatever. It's very frustrating.

I can't say as I have come across elderly in this context but every day is a school day, I guess.

 

As I indicated above, it came as a surprise to me some five years ago.

 

It dates back a little further:

 

"The guide says it aims to help journalists report stories about "older people" in a "fair contemporary and unbiased" manner.

The authors of the report state that 80 per cent of older Americans have been subjected to ageist stereotypes.

"While names and characterisations may vary, the message is the same: older men and women are incompetent and lack sufficiency," the guide states.

Journalists are advised: "If you need to identify individuals over the age of 50, 'older adults' is preferred over 'senior' and 'elderly', which can be discriminatory in nature."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4596139/Elderly-no-longer-acceptable-word-for-older-people.html

[Thinker 887]

I'm reluctant to write anything on the subject as it's such a minefield, but the thing is, in many cases the goalposts shift, and with the best will in the world it can be difficult to keep up with the accepted terminology.

 

For example, I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that it was only fairly recently that I found out that the word "transvestite" is considered derogatory, even though it's literal translation "cross-dresser" gets the green light. It was okay in the past, but fell out of favour as it became associated with a psychological term that not all cross-dressers would consider applicable to them. How's your average punter supposed to know that (unless it's by getting pulled up for it)?

[craig 5,199]

Regarding positions as "mod" or "admin" I think all forum members should realize and accept that mod and admin are also forum members. Therefore we will often post as members. With gersnet the only thing that separates mods and admin from the rest of the forum members is that we have to undergo the management of the site.

 

The vast majority of the time we are posting our own thoughts and opinions as members of the forum. That in itself means we have no greater authority when it comes to posting than anyone else.

 

I understand Anchorman had an issue with what pete posted - but pete's position as a moderator has absolutely zero relevance with regard to what he posted.

 

I understand that there is an expectation for us to "rise above" but we are just regular people too with our own thoughts and opinions.

[Germinal 27]

As I indicated above, it came as a surprise to me some five years ago.

 

It dates back a little further:

 

"The guide says it aims to help journalists report stories about "older people" in a "fair contemporary and unbiased" manner.

The authors of the report state that 80 per cent of older Americans have been subjected to ageist stereotypes.

"While names and characterisations may vary, the message is the same: older men and women are incompetent and lack sufficiency," the guide states.

Journalists are advised: "If you need to identify individuals over the age of 50, 'older adults' is preferred over 'senior' and 'elderly', which can be discriminatory in nature."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4596139/Elderly-no-longer-acceptable-word-for-older-people.html

 

Kind of 50-50 on that one, older adults isn't too bad but I think I would simply recontruct the sentence by data, so that '80 per cent of older Americans have been subjected to ageist stereotypes' becomes '80 per cent of Americans over the age of xx have been subject to ageist stereotypes'. Especially if you're trying to communicate a message via statistics, you don't want to give people's processing capacity an easy way out by letting them focus on what they see as too PC/not PC enough language & ignoring the message.

 

Getting a bit dull now but again it shows how there's many reasons way beyond simply 'pandering to minorities' or whatever that sees the usage of words changes.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Germinal

[pete 2,499]

Yeah, I did, fair enough.

 

 

 

But we're agreed that discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation is a bad thing, right? And the use of words and terms that are derogatory and offensive to them should be discouraged too, yeah? The rest is a strawman.

 

 

 

See I'm cool with people having different views from me, I'm not backwards in expressing my disagreement with some views, as you might have noticed, so I've no problem with other people doing the same. Indeed I quite enjoy it sometimes. It was Anchorman who left the site, not me. I don't think he should have, it was an over-reaction in my opinion, but I can see why Pete's position on here as a 'mod' gave his words more authority and so carried more offence. Pete's explained and apologised, for me that's enough.

 

When I am giving my opinion it has nothing to do with being a Mod. We do not have an admin party line on here. I told Frankie I thought he was wrong the other day. Because he is site owner does not mean that he is right all the time. If being a moderator means I cannot give my opinion then I will pack it in as I come on here to give my opinion in discussion and not to moderate per se.