the gunslinger 3,366 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 As I was aiming at in the above post, a "poor" season fro Messi is a career defining season for other players. Alli? Bale? These guys are not on the same planet as Messi. Good as they are they are not close. When Alli scores 45 goals from 45 games in a "poor" season, I might take notice. Anyway, it's all about opinions. Enjoy the game Gunslinger (does anyone actually "enjoy these games...) Ali playes a different position but when he goes to spain he wont be far off. Messis decline goes back 3 years. Its not a bad season its a shift in performance level. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 He's not as consistently good as he was and that may be due to court cases, things going on at Barca, or simply burn out as he's played an unbelievable amount of football and never gets a break due to World Cups, Copa America, and all the extra tournaments now run for clubs. He can still be way ahead of anyone else though. I watched a game from Spain a couple of months back where he was as good as ever. This came amidst, by his outrageous standards, 'poor' games. My abiding memories from the Juve game will be a pass he made that was so sexy that I thought I'd switched to a porn channel. You say that he's not the best at Barca anymore - I disagree, he's the first one they'd want on the team-sheet and the last player they'd want to lose. He's not been the best in the team for every single game this season. That's the difference. Im betting the sell him in the summer while hes still worth loads. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I still don't see this vast improvement everybody seems to be seeing. I think we have got worse under Pedro. Our best period was under Murty at least you could see a system the players seemed to understand. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,747 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) I still don't see this vast improvement everybody seems to be seeing. I think we have got worse under Pedro. Our best period was under Murty at least you could see a system the players seemed to understand. I doubt we got worse. We play different opposition each week, have different players at our disposal and try the odd different approach and system. We lost our first two games against Dundee and ICT under Murty and I remember screaming at the screen regarding tactics and substitutions. With PC came the usual fresh wind that a manager brings, players raise their game as new opportunities arise. Today was a benchmark, but I have no doubt whatsoever that we would have seen a different team had everyone been fit. And whether these players had done any better than under Warburton? We'll never know. Hence I see no real point in these "better than or worse than" debates. Not least, if a manager is essentially just in, hasn't got all players at his disposal and has next to no experience to e.g. an OF game. Edited April 23, 2017 by der Berliner 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Im betting the sell him in the summer while hes still worth loads. I will take your bet all day long. They are trying to tie him down on a long term contract and there is every sign that he will given his wife and Suarez's girlfriend have just started their own business in Barcelona. I would possibly have agreed with you about him leaving if Enrique stayed as they don't get along. But he is gone so Messi is likely to stay. Barcelona know just how marketable he is - indeed, they pushed Deco & Ronaldinho out the door because they saw Messi as their superstar - not just footballing but marketing. Everything is about opinions but it is, IMHO, nonsense to suggest that Messi isn't the best at Barcelona - who is better than him ? Suarez ? Nope, he is a finisher but not even close to as good as Messi, much of what he does is because of Messi. Neymar ? Nope, still too inconsistent and still makes poor decisions. There really is nobody else at Barca who is close - Iniesta is getting on and not getting games too. Nobody else is even close. Bale ? Really ? He isn't even close to as good as Messi technically - he relies on his pace (fair enough) but as a footballer he doesn't come close to Messi. Ronaldo possibly, but it certainly isn't for the last 3 season - last season and a half perhaps. Alli ? Good player as he is, he also is nowhere near the quality of Messi. Messi does things with and without the ball that others can only dream of doing, and that includes Ronaldo. He is a victim of his ridiculously high standards. I saw him live against Celta Vigo at the start of March and he single-handedly ripped them apart. You don't see on TV just what he does without the ball for that team. He drags players all over the place, creating space for others. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uilleam 5,948 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 .....And can he chop down forests with his bare hands, flatten mountains with a mere glance, and raise the dead? Can't wait for the graphic novel. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERRAB 3,677 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I think we will need to reserve judgement on PC until he gets some of his own players in We must hope we don't get anything like those 11 who arrived last summer most of whom couldn't get near the starting XI. Hopefully PC is identifying the positions which needs strengthening most & will take things from there 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhunter 0 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 we were a ragged indisciplined mess under warburton and we continue to be a ragged indisciplined mess under pedro nothing has changed so we look forward to better players being signed where is the money going to come from to make these signings? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1964 10,724 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 we were a ragged indisciplined mess under warburton and we continue to be a ragged indisciplined mess under pedro nothing has changed so we look forward to better players being signed where is the money going to come from to make these signings? Unless money is made available for PC then it won't matter who the manager is!, we can only hope investment is made otherwise we will always be fighting for 2nd place! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Hes not even the best at barca anymore. Maybe even third. Over the last few years ronaldos been better. Hazard is getting to be outrageously good. There are other contenders in bale and even alli. No team wouldnt take cante in a heartbeat. Messis unbelievable hes just not as good as he was. Whilst it is only one game he just proved you wrong, at least for today. Ronaldo couldn't have hit a coo in the erse with a banjo today - Messi absolutely outclassed him and scored two - his first an absolutely sublime way to go past two defenders on the edge of the box - and the 2nd one under pressure in the sense that they NEEDED it to even have a chance in this La Liga and his finish was top class. Messi outshone today every player on the pitch today in the El Classico. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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