ian1964 10,761 Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Nil By Mouth trying to drum up support for strict liability with misleading opinion poll Here's why this is, and always will be, total nonsense. by Callum Hamilton Feb 14, 2017, 5:42am PST http://www.gotthebattlefeveron.com/2017/2/14/14604472/nil-by-mouth-trying-to-drum-up-support-for-strict-liability-with-misleading-opinion-poll 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) The Tribunals will be at an entirely different level, almost certainly headed by judges or former judges or leading counsel. I am equally confident, for just the reasons that you suggest, that the authorities will lean over backwards to ensure that there is no potential bias in the backgrounds of panel members. How many judges have sentenced someone for using the word Hun compared to using the word Fen.ian? What proportion of Rangers fans on the Hampden pitch last May compared to the proportion of Hibs fans have been lifted? One Club will be picked to make an example of and we all know what Club that will be. Edited February 15, 2017 by forlanssister 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aweebluesoandso 290 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 The Tribunals will be at an entirely different level, almost certainly headed by judges or former judges or leading counsel. I am equally confident, for just the reasons that you suggest, that the authorities will lean over backwards to ensure that there is no potential bias in the backgrounds of panel members. You mean a judge like Lord Carloway, who upheld an illegal players registration ban by an SFA independant panel. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 The Tribunals will be at an entirely different level, almost certainly headed by judges or former judges or leading counsel. I am equally confident, for just the reasons that you suggest, that the authorities will lean over backwards to ensure that there is no potential bias in the backgrounds of panel members. No doubt this is the kind of judge you want to see dispense justice. A Rangers fan who was arrested for sectarian singing while on his way to attend a game against Celtic has been jailed for four months. Scott Lamont, from Glasgow, was heard singing the words of the Billy Boys song on Cathcart Road on 1 February. The 24-year-old admitted the charge at Glasgow Sheriff Court. He was also given an 18-month football banning order and told his behaviour would not be tolerated. Sheriff Paul Crozier told Lamont's lawyer, Joanne Gray: "Glasgow has developed a good reputation in recent years. "We had the Commonwealth Games last summer, we haven't had an Old Firm game in years. "What happened at the first Old Firm game? People like him let Glasgow down." 'Ruin football' The sheriff described the words to the song as "inflammatory" an said it "could have led to horrendous violence". He told Lamont: "Your conduct on 1 February was the sort of conduct that the authorities had asked football loving fans to refrain from. "A message has to be sent to those people who would choose to ruin football for the vast majority who want to go to these games, that you cannot behave like this. "This sort of behaviour will not be tolerated, certainly not by me." Another man, Alexander Blood, from Saltford in Somerset, was given a community payback order after admitting acting in a racially aggravated manner. Blood swore at police officers and called them "Jock". As part of the order he will be supervised for 18 months and must carry out 160 hours of unpaid work. He was also given a three year football banning order. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-31856341 Football fans have appeared in court over sectarianism and running on the pitch at Sunday's Old Firm derby. A Rangers fan was fined £200 for running on to the pitch at Hampden while a Celtic supporter admitted making sectarian remarks at the Scottish Cup semi-final. Rangers supporter Dale Hill, 21, from Belfast, Northern Ireland, admitted leaving the north stand and running on to the pitch at Hampden Park on April 17. He jumped over the security barrier and towards the Rangers players. Procurator fiscal depute Stuart Faure said he was chased by stadium security staff who were helped by police, who apprehended him. He was arrested and appeared from custody at Glasgow Sheriff Court, where he admitted breaching the peace. Sheriff Paul Crozier fined him £200 and said a football banning order was "not merited". Celtic fan Sam Miller, 26, from Essex, admitted making sectarian remarks after the match. The self-employed poker player pleaded guilty to breaching the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act by shouting, swearing, gesticulating and making sectarian remarks at Rangers fans and police officers. Miller also admitted resisting arrest on April 17, at Hampden Park. He admitted the charges after being arrested at the match when police spotted him walking towards Rangers fans after the final whistle. He was seen shouting and gesturing in an aggressive manner at the fans as they celebrated, and some were beginning to leave. The fiscal, Mr Faure said: "He was shouting 'f*g orange bs'. Police officers heard him use that phrase repeatedly. "The officers went towards the accused and told him he was under arrest and placed their hands on him. "It was at this stage he deliberately tensed his arms making it more difficult for the police officers to take him in to custody." Sentence was deferred until next month for reports and bail was granted with the condition he does not attend any regulated football match in Scotland. Another man Robert Wyatt, 31, from Castlemilk, Glasgow, pleaded not guilty to running on to the pitch after the match. He appeared from custody and denied the breach of the peace charge. A trial was set for October this year and bail was granted with the special conditions that he does not enter Hampden Park or attend any regulated football match in Scotland. https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1351090-rangers-and-celtic-fans-appear-in-court-after-old-firm-match/ A professional poker player who shouted sectarian abuse after the Old Firm match at Hampden last month has been given a football banning order but avoided jail. Sam Miller, 26, from Romford, Essex, was spared jail after shouting 'f****** orange b******s" after the Celtic v Rangers Scottish Cup semi-final on April 17. Miller was arrested at the match and after spending a night in the cells pleaded guilty to breaching the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act by shouting, swearing, gesticulating and making sectarian remarks at Rangers fans and police officers. He also admitted resisting arrest. Passing sentence on Monday, sheriff Paul Crozier said: "Your conduct was appalling, bringing shame on you and your family." He handed Miller a community payback order with the condition he must carry out 120 hours of unpaid work within six months. He also imposed a year-long football banning order. Miller was arrested at the match when police spotted him walking towards Rangers fans at an area of the stand after the final whistle. He was seen shouting and gesturing in an aggressive manner at the fans as they celebrated, and some were beginning to leave. Procurator fiscal depute Stuart Fauré said: "He was shouting 'f****** orange b******s. Police officers heard him use that phrase repeatedly. "The officers went towards the accused and told him he was under arrest and placed their hands on him. "It was at this stage he deliberately tensed his arms making it more difficult for the police officers to take him into custody." The court heard he shouted the same phrase and police were able to finally prise him away from the railings. Defence lawyer Des Finnieston told the court he has "very seldom" seen a client so anxious and regretful for what they have done. He said Miller got caught up in a group situation but as to how it happened, Miller is "lost for an explanation". Miller was in Glasgow for a poker game and had been invited by a friend to the hospitality area and had too much to drink. The court heard he has no affiliation to either team but had put a bet on Celtic to win. https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1354272-man-who-shouted-sectarian-abuse-at-old-firm-match-avoids-jail/ https://themanthebheastscanttame.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/the-auld-firm-song-remains-the-same/ 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Strict liability doesn't mean that any sentencing would come from the judiciary though. That's where your argument potentially fails. You are correct, of course, that the term "strict liability" refers to the liability not the sentencing; but my point is that the authorities will want to be seen to be scrupulously fair, so that whilst they may well set the parameters of the sentences in their rules, the independent panel will make the judgements. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 How many judges have sentenced someone for using the word Hun compared to using the word Fen.ian? What proportion of Rangers fans on the Hampden pitch last May compared to the proportion of Hibs fans have been lifted? One Club will be picked to make an example of and we all know what Club that will be. None of the above has anything whatsoever to do with strict liability. 1) the judges will not be the charging authority 2) your issue about the Cup Final is with the police and the procurator fiscal, who have nothing to do with the football authorities 3) and you know that how? You have yet to produce any evidence to show that strict liability is not the fairest way to deal with unacceptable conduct of fans. Are you saying that you disagree with the numerous fines imposed on Celtic FC by UEFA (other than the fact that they might have been higher or the sentences escalated)? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 No doubt this is the kind of judge you want to see dispense justice. Yet again these cases have nothing to do with strict liability because it is the Clubs that will be in the dock not the individual fans. In any event are you saying that the conduct described is acceptable and should go unpunished because it has been perpetrated by Rangers fans? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 None of the above has anything whatsoever to do with strict liability. They are all examples the reality of being associated with Rangers in the Scotland we now live in. 1) the judges will not be the charging authority They will be deciding guilt and the punishment. 2) your issue about the Cup Final is with the police and the procurator fiscal, who have nothing to do with the football authorities Ultimate responsibility lays at the door of the SFA, it was their ground and their competition. They conducted a whitewash to clear their own arse and that of the Police. 3) and you know that how? Because I live in the real world not Cloud Cuckoo Land. You have yet to produce any evidence to show that strict liability is not the fairest way to deal with unacceptable conduct of fans. You've yet to produce any evidence it will be implemented in a fair way while all the anecdotal evidence indicates it most certainly won't. Are you saying that you disagree with the numerous fines imposed on Celtic FC by UEFA (other than the fact that they might have been higher or the sentences escalated)? Yes strict liability has really worked in their case, really changed their behaviour hasn't it, been a real hindrance to them eh? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Yet again these cases have nothing to do with strict liability because it is the Clubs that will be in the dock not the individual fans. The people who dispensed "justice" in those cases and there ilk are the people you say will be doing likewise in the cases of strict liability. In any event are you saying that the conduct described is acceptable and should go unpunished because it has been perpetrated by Rangers fans? I don't think any young boy should have a criminal record, be sent to jail and have his life ruined for singing a song no matter which football club he supports. You're so out of touch with the average fan that it beggars belief. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) You are correct, of course, that the term "strict liability" refers to the liability not the sentencing; but my point is that the authorities will want to be seen to be scrupulously fair, so that whilst they may well set the parameters of the sentences in their rules, the independent panel will make the judgements. Imaginary tours of Japan so you can't extend the season fair? We've got a couple of suspensions and injuries and a player we didn't deem worthy of offering a contract to and then died playing for another club so we want our game postponed fair? The early payment of Gretna's prize money for going into administration and the theft of Rangers prize money for doing likewise fair? Is that the scrupulously fairness you want to see because that's the kind you'll get? Edited February 15, 2017 by forlanssister Shite spelling 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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