My thoughts about new manager etc...

[Darthter 542]

I think there is an issue that is bigger than simply getting a new manager.

 

For a number of years (pre-whyte/green), I believe the club as a whole have been under performing. Yes, we have been winning games/cups/leagues, but the Club as a whole has not really advanced.

 

When was the last time that we brought in a player, improved them, then sold on for a decent profit??? We tend to get decent players in, let them run out their contracts then release them cos no-one will buy them. Case in point being Joe Dodoo....when we signed him, he was being touted as a £8-9m player down south - we got him for £500k due to cross-border rules. How many clubs down south would realistically pay more than the £500k we bought him for???

 

We have brought in several managers over the years, and spend a lot of cash on good players, yet strong performances in Europe are still elusive - the last memorable performance being in 2008 (I think).

Over the past couple of years, we have brought through some young players - most of whom are no longer with the club - yet how many of them actually brought ANY funds in???

 

I think the board MUST take a wee step back and look at operations as a whole, and develop a more robust strategy that is going to actually enhance the club going forward. Any possible signings MUST offer the club something beneficial. Signing 30-something year old players is great for experience, but they have ZERO resale value - it is difficult to classify them as Assets. As a result, our team is next to worthless.

 

There needs to be some background infrastructure in place for ANY new manager, as to how we are going to better manage our assets. It needs to be made clear to any new manager that wheeling & dealing is part of life nowadays & that they have a responsibility to be a part of that ie. produce player performances on the pitch that will create interest in them. Where there is interest, there is profit.

I think we need to get more of our young players out on loan further afield than Paisley or Greenock. Wee need to get these young guys in the shop window. Get them down south, or abroad and get them playing and performing as much as possible - generate interest in them.

MW spoke about protecting Bournemouth's asset (Emerson Hyndman).....do we do/expect the same when our players are out on loan @ Cowdenbeath etc???

We only need to look across the city at some of the young players that they have brought through. for many there is probably no long term future at Ceptic, but they will most likely move onto other teams for heavily over inflated prices - they are ASSETS.

 

There is simply no point in bringing in a new manager, then doing things the same way. If that is the case, it will take decades before we are back to being a true force in football. There will be years when we win a league or 2, or a couple of cups, but we will not be the dominant force we once were. In this day & age of football, Cash is king and we need to be generating more than we do. Ceptic are bringing in huge sums of cash from the Champions league, but on top of that they are performing well in the transfer market - buying low, selling high. We need to up the ante considerably.

[aweebluesoandso 290]

That's basically the plan the board want, unfortunately we got sidetracked with a cunning plan-A. However it's back to the drawing board again, i'm actually excited again.

[Frankie 8,562]

All your points are correct of course and, to be fair, I do think we've been trying to do this to a certain extent.

 

The problem is and always will be funding. We simply don't have the money to do things properly.

 

For example, we want to sign better players. Fine, but without an all-encompassing scouting system, we're reliant on people coming to us for the most part.

 

Ok, let's develop our own players. Again, that's fine but with an increasingly fickle support, just how patient will our fans be to do this? The criticism aimed at Barrie McKay suggests not much.

 

In general, any change to the way our club operates will take years and we're already 5+ years down on Celtic (empirically speaking). 2012 should have seen us start from scratch and find our own model. We didn't then as those in charge operated on greed.

 

We tried again two years ago but it seems to have fell apart just when we should have been seeing results.

 

I'm not sure what the future holds and don't want to be too critical of the regime which includes fans like you and me hurting like you and me but it's difficult to be positive.

 

Let's say we announce a share issue before the end of this month to raise somewhere in the region of £20m. Do we invest that into infrastructure/working captial as has been the case with any monies so far since Kingco assumed control? Or should ever penny go to players? And if so, what you be the wage ceiling?

 

Too many questions and not enough answers unfortunately.

[rbr 1,256]

The problem is Frankie even if we do raise £20 million , over £12 is going straight back to our custodians to repay the soft loans , the tims have had 4 share issues to properly get themselves sorted , we are light years behind and I don't see any willingness from the board to finance us to the required level .

 

Simply put we need these court cases to get heard asap and need to pray they go our way , get the retail and sponsorship deals back at a level that they should be at and viola that's approx £8 million up on where we were , the team needs seriously strengthened , never in our history has any manager had to start from such a weak position and I include McCoist as you need to take into account the league we were in at the time , god help the new manager because this board won't .

[lenny3k 660]

The problem with player resale value is not necessarily one that we can solve on our own... The Scottish leagues are seen as an area that can be taken advantage of, where gems can be searched for with not much risk because the price is cheap.. The reason we will do well to get a get a good re-sale on somebody like Dodoo is because, in the opinion of potential suitors, he is playing in a sub standard league, in a team that is under performing and he can't even get into the first 11.. The reason he was worth 8-9 million IMO is because, at the time, he was playing for the Premiership champions, had he been playing for an English League 1 team, even if he had the same potential, I think he would more likely be quoted as a million pound player.

 

I think a lot of player value comes from the club they play for rather than their actual ability/potential, which leads to the point about Celtic. They can sell players at a higher value because they are playing well and more importantly, they are playing in the champions league, lets be honest if there was no champions league, do you think anybody would be quoting Dembele for £40million, he'd be quoted at £10million, at a push..

[Darthter 542]

This is not a recent (5year) problem...it has been there for a lot longer.

 

Look at Garner....bought for circa £1.5m, we'd be lucky to get £250k for him.

Look at Dodoo....bought for £500k, we'd be lucky to get £250k for him.

 

Throwing money at the problem is not the way to sort it.

 

Hopefully the Academy is back on a better track now & wee will see some talent emerging soon (year or 2), but we need to be better prepared for that happening. We need to deal with it smarter.

We need to be smarter with player purchases other wise we will simply end up with much more expensive failures.

[Darthter 542]

lets be honest if there was no champions league, do you think anybody would be quoting Dembele for £40million, he'd be quoted at £10million, at a push..

 

On a £500k investment....that's no a bad return.

How many players have they reportedly sold for around the £10m mark recently??? When was the last time we sold a player at that level???

 

Think back to Tore Andre Flo (2000-2002)....bought for £13m, then sold to Sunderland for £6.75m (although it was originally reported to be £10m). That is the kind of business that has been common place for decades.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Darthter

[rbr 1,256]

This is not a recent (5year) problem...it has been there for a lot longer.

 

Look at Garner....bought for circa £1.5m, we'd be lucky to get £250k for him.

Look at Dodoo....bought for £500k, we'd be lucky to get £250k for him.

 

Throwing money at the problem is not the way to sort it.

 

Hopefully the Academy is back on a better track now & wee will see some talent emerging soon (year or 2), but we need to be better prepared for that happening. We need to deal with it smarter.

We need to be smarter with player purchases other wise we will simply end up with much more expensive failures.

 

You better hope the new manager buys into the academy project then , otherwise we are as well shutting it down , some one like Walter never trusted kids , I fact if you look back if it wasn't for advocatt Ferguson might never have made it with us , that I agree is a huge guess on my part .

 

I hope the board get a director of football sorted first , we need especially at this point in time a long term strategy not a short term one to get 2nd place , because as for Europe there is next to no difference between 2 nd and 4 th in reality .

[Darthter 542]

A DoF might be a good way to go. Put them in charge of all the admin-type stuff, and let the coach get on with coaching....

[pete 2,499]

All your points are correct of course and, to be fair, I do think we've been trying to do this to a certain extent.

 

The problem is and always will be funding. We simply don't have the money to do things properly.

 

For example, we want to sign better players. Fine, but without an all-encompassing scouting system, we're reliant on people coming to us for the most part.

 

Ok, let's develop our own players. Again, that's fine but with an increasingly fickle support, just how patient will our fans be to do this? The criticism aimed at Barrie McKay suggests not much.

 

In general, any change to the way our club operates will take years and we're already 5+ years down on Celtic (empirically speaking). 2012 should have seen us start from scratch and find our own model. We didn't then as those in charge operated on greed.

 

We tried again two years ago but it seems to have fell apart just when we should have been seeing results.

 

I'm not sure what the future holds and don't want to be too critical of the regime which includes fans like you and me hurting like you and me but it's difficult to be positive.

 

Let's say we announce a share issue before the end of this month to raise somewhere in the region of £20m. Do we invest that into infrastructure/working captial as has been the case with any monies so far since Kingco assumed control? Or should ever penny go to players? And if so, what you be the wage ceiling?

 

Too many questions and not enough answers unfortunately.

 

20 million won't be 20 million as King and Park have said they are taking their cash or shares out first so the 20 million will be about 12 million. If we need another soft loan to get us through this season that then will leave about 10 million. If you take that a decent player will probably cost 2-4 million with wages added on then you are talking about 3 players at the most. 20 million may be a start but to a club the size of Rangers it is like us pissing 20 quid against the pub toilet wall on a Saturday night.

 

As Dell pointed out King now seems to be doing his sums with a fork. He is now making it look like he has invested 18 million and hoping that that number now sticks in our heads and becomes a fact. He is starting to talk more than act. I hate to say it but he is starting on the fifty shades of Green. The 30 million he has talked about should have been extra investment and not including the day to day running of the club as that is an on going cost and will never have a limit as it is hopefully timeless.