calscot 0 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 I haven't read your post again. You can't decide to use sections of statistics (1 game, 5 games, 10 games, 14 games etc etc) to prove one manager is better than another - and then expect to take hard facts used by someone else and decide you want to change the argument on them. It doesn't work like that - even though that is exactly what you are trying to do. We had this very same discussion in an old thread on Ally and comparing results between him and Warburton and you did exactly that. I actually don't have to think about anything cal - I am still waiting, and it will be a cold day in hell before it actually happens that you disprove the statistic that Warburton provided. I think you are being deliberately obtuse now. He stated, for your edification once more "We are unbeaten at home in 32 games". Again, for the last, last time.... can you please explain to me what is erroneous about that statistic ? Forget all of your "ifs, buts, maybes" and forget all of your "you have to consider wins vs draws" addendums - just explain where he is erroneous when he states "we are unbeaten in 32 games" ? The issue is..... YOU CAN'T !!!!! As for me "messing the thread up with personal crap" - sorry but that is complete fallacy. If anyone made things personal it was you when you capitalized for me to "read your effing posts" and now you attempt to belittle me with "to me its sooooooo obvious, but you have to actually think about it". Talk about a superiority complex. I actually find that more than just a little ignorant, and indeed it would be offensive to someone who had sensitivities, but I don't, so I find it amusing. You really need to stop with the "I know better than all of you" style of posting - you are far better than that. Before you know it you will be responding to yourself in these threads because you will chase people away with the manner in which you post. Again, as I say, that is your prerogative. And, yes, I am aware that the last two sentences could be construed to be "personal" but they are intended to help you see that there are better ways in which to post and debate. I have absolutely NO desire to debate with anyone who is so stubborn (when they are wrong) as to completely ignore the evidence presented to them. I have absolutely NO desire to debate with someone who thinks nothing of trying to belittle those they are attempting to debate with. I simply wont partake in it. Sorry Craig, but you have shown no capacity for understanding my posts. I responded in caps as you once again attacked me with stuff I didn't say - it was a response. The only time I "chase people away" is when they attack me instead of making a point. It's incredibly tedious. You are the one being supercilious. I'm just asking you to stop attacking me with made up stuff and make points and rebuttals. If you think that's superior and personal then you have problems. This is the way it always happens with you: you attack me with rubbish, I point that out and ask you to debate the points, you attack me again and get personal, I point out that you are guilty of what you are accusing me of, and then you throw the toys out of the pram. You are one to talk about chasing people away, I've seen many others react badly to your posts too and could empathise with them. Craig your last paragraph is weird, I don't ignore evidence, you do, as in this case. There is one point to discuss in this exchange and you refuse to and refuse to see my point. I don't mind people arguing against my points but you have to get it to rebutt it. Or ask for further explanation. The problem I have on here is that many people generally have an entrenched viewpoint and refuse to see the other side. I admit I'm wrong often enough when it happens - but it won't happen often if I'm the only one seeing more than one side. Craig, you belittled me, I only responded to the belittlement. Read it back - please. Next time I'm just going to have to report, report and report again as you really lack respect most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Sorry Craig, but you have shown no capacity for understanding my posts. I responded in caps as you once again attacked me with stuff I didn't say - it was a response. The only time I "chase people away" is when they attack me instead of making a point. It's incredibly tedious. You are the one being supercilious. I'm just asking you to stop attacking me with made up stuff and make points and rebuttals. If you think that's superior and personal then you have problems. This is the way it always happens with you: you attack me with rubbish, I point that out and ask you to debate the points, you attack me again and get personal, I point out that you are guilty of what you are accusing me of, and then you throw the toys out of the pram. You are one to talk about chasing people away, I've seen many others react badly to your posts too and could empathise with them. Craig your last paragraph is weird, I don't ignore evidence, you do, as in this case. There is one point to discuss in this exchange and you refuse to and refuse to see my point. I don't mind people arguing against my points but you have to get it to rebutt it. Or ask for further explanation. The problem I have on here is that many people generally have an entrenched viewpoint and refuse to see the other side. I admit I'm wrong often enough when it happens - but it won't happen often if I'm the only one seeing more than one side. Craig, you belittled me, I only responded to the belittlement. Read it back - please. Next time I'm just going to have to report, report and report again as you really lack respect most of the time. You have stated before that facts are facts. Indisputable. Variables around them don't change the facts. These are all assertions you have made. Yes, you have. Deny them if you like but I know you have suggested these things in other threads. So, with all that said, the one point to discuss is thus : Warburton said "we are unbeaten at home in 32 games" and you countered with "he is erroneous with his facts". I am STILL waiting for you to inform me as to which part of his fact he was erroneous with. This is NOT an entrenched viewpoint, it is a FACT that Warburton is correct. It is also a FACT that you are incorrect when you state that he is erroneous. You can deny it all you like but it still wont change the fact that his statement was accurate and factual whilst yours is not (the easiest way for you to counter him would be to suggest he discounted the Burnley game and therefore was wrong - but you didn't and preferred to start using other factors, none of which change the fact that he is right in terms of competitive games). No, you chase people away fairly often and fairly often it is because of your "I know better" attitude. It is hypocrisy at its finest when you accuse people on here of being "entrenched" because, from my perspective you are one of, if not the, most entrenched person on this forum. If you can't see that then nobody can help you. I threw the toys out the pram ? Really ? And here was me thinking that happened when you decided to start shouting and swearing - my original post on this was neither personal (other than to point out the hypocrisy of suggesting that facts or statistics aren't all they seem) and neither did I throw any toys from any pram. I think you have your and my role in this reversed my friend. What is there to understand ? You dispute a fact but still cant prove why it is wrong. I think I am being more than just a touch patient by still waiting for you to prove his statement wrong. If you think that I made a personal attack on you then you are very, very sensitive. I cant change that for you. My original post was hardly an attack, but it is your prerogative to believe so. Your choice. Your view on this particular exchange is completely the opposite to my view of it - but that's fine, doesn't bother me. To be honest, others are quite at liberty to react badly to my posts, that is their, and your, prerogative - I just wish some of those people would find it within themselves to PM me and tell me why it is that I chase them away - I don't see it myself but maybe I am ignorant to the affect I have on people. I guess that, at least in YOUR case, people tell you right in the thread that you are chasing them away so that it is blindingly obvious. Not sure why people wouldn't do the same thing with me though, maybe I just scare them away I'm not ignoring any evidence cal. The evidence is there for all to see. Warburton said we are unbeaten in 32 games at home. That is the evidence he provided. He is correct. You decided to alter the narrative by putting your own slant on what he said. You still haven't proven how he was erroneous though...... I disagree, when you try to change the narrative and someone comes back and challenges your assertion that the original statement (that being Warburton's, not yours) is erroneous I believe that the burden of proof is with YOU to prove that the original statement was indeed erroneous as you suggest. You still haven't done that. And you can't, because it isn't erroneous. I lack respect ? You seriously believe that ? Can you tell me on what grounds you believe I lack respect ? In all of this exchange I believe I have been as respectful as possible of someone who shouts at me to "read their effing words" and then also suggests that I am not particularly smart given that it is "sooooo obvious to you, but you [me] has to think about it"...... I think I have proven a great deal of restraint in all honesty - something which I don't think you can claim. As for the "you belittled me first" complaint, I will agree to disagree. I pointed out your hypocrisy and you threw your toys out the pram and the first belittling from either of us, in my opinion, was you suggesting I was simple. Have a good evening, I know I will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) Given our financial situation, I think spending almost £2 million on Garner will go down as one of the worst signings in our history. Edited November 30, 2016 by Ser Barristan Selmy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilledbear 16 Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 You could be right Neil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whosthedado 1,617 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 You could be right Neil. He's bang on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,562 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Ain't it nice if some things click into place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Craig, that is some rant and I really don't know what you're on about. You clearly won't stop misrepresentating or at least misinterpreting me. To clarify how far off the mark your post is, I will requote myself from earlier: "I believe Warburton's facts but question the relevance and interpretation of them." I think this unambiguously shows you owe me an apology but I won't hold my breath. I don't know what your problem is, but it would help if you could read my posts and understand them, instead of repeadly going off the handle attacking me for stuff I didn't say or mean. I'm always happy to clarify my position if I am being ambiguous or not making things clear, or maybe not using words where we agree on their semantics. I'm sorry for the swearing but the point was that enough is enough, you've gone too far. It's not nice to be repeatedly attacked in public for mistruths about what you said. Please desist from further libeling me on this forum, it's hard not to defend myself and subsequently just gets boring for everyone, especially when all you do is repeat the mistruths without any evidence. The forum is archived, please reread them before erroneously bringing past stuff up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Craig, that is some rant and I really don't know what you're on about. You clearly won't stop misrepresentating or at least misinterpreting me. To clarify how far off the mark your post is, I will requote myself from earlier: "I believe Warburton's facts but question the relevance and interpretation of them." I think this unambiguously shows you owe me an apology but I won't hold my breath. I don't know what your problem is, but it would help if you could read my posts and understand them, instead of repeadly going off the handle attacking me for stuff I didn't say or mean. I'm always happy to clarify my position if I am being ambiguous or not making things clear, or maybe not using words where we agree on their semantics. I'm sorry for the swearing but the point was that enough is enough, you've gone too far. It's not nice to be repeatedly attacked in public for mistruths about what you said. Please desist from further libeling me on this forum, it's hard not to defend myself and subsequently just gets boring for everyone, especially when all you do is repeat the mistruths without any evidence. The forum is archived, please reread them before erroneously bringing past stuff up. Any chance of you two taking this Private. it is pretty boring to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I see the point, but as I've said before, when you're falsely disparaged in public, it's difficult not to defend yourself in public. The fact that previous lies about me have grown arms and legs vindicates this. I've already said to Craig that it's boring and asked him to stop so I'm aware of this. My last post was supposed to be pretty final but now this one will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Guy's I am going to close this for now as we are getting two threads with the same discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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